I can see why you would say that talking to a fundie is like talking to a person who is mentally unstable. Some might be, I am sure. I think though, the average churchgoer of a fundie church just is recycling things they were told without much thought. At least, that has been my experience. Most people don't think unless they are compelled to do so. Churches are also starting to push a derisiveness toward education, logical thinking, science etc. That doesn't help.

I think the reason they sound crazy is because of the programming I mentioned above. And programming is not too strong a word. Let's see, how do I explain this…

Ok, take LGBT rights and an average person who goes to a fundie church. Average person is told that gay people are bad. That the Bible says so. They are also told gay people and their supporters are going to use certain words, arguments, etc that SEEM logical but really aren't. The teacher will set up straw man arguments that are kinda sorta close to the real arguments used and teach their followers how to foil them.

For example:
Real argument: The case can be made that Paul wasn't talking about stable, loving homosexual relationships. For one thing, the word homosexual and the connotations of that didn't exist at the time.

Straw man sort of argument: The LGBT agenda is to tear down the Bible. They will try to tell you that Paul wasn't talking about gay people today. That is of course false since Paul obviously was. It says so right in the Bible. This is just part of the homosexual agenda to get rid of religion.

Conversation that follows:

You (or other smart supporter): Actually the word homosexual doesn't necessarily mean what we think of today as a homosexual relationship.

Fundie: OMG YOU HATE CHRISTIANS AND ARE TRYING TO DESTROY MY FAITH!!!

You: Wait? What? No…see, I am merely pointing out…

Fundie! YES YOU ARE! HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA! *clutches pearls*

So, you, a person who is trying to talk to the fundie will hear reactions that make absolutely no sense to you. Of course it's crazy. But it does make sense to them. The trick is to not use an argument or phrase that they already have a "response" for. If you want to e-mail me, i can give you a list of the arguments I know that I was taught. I grew up in this and am willing to be a translator

Wow that got long. Sorry.

Even if you get a fundie one on one it's like talking to a crazy person, who is not in touch with reality, so do you think we should continue that appoach like with Brian Brown, trying to talk to him.

As a group they are indeed formidable fows, how do we tackle that, in terms of the money and power they wield?

I agree, that somehow Americans where lulled into a false sense of complacency, thinking christians were good people therefore no need to worry about them, they were seen as good for America, and as rainbow people we may be the first minority to wake up to the distruction they have already caused with their addiction to money and power.

This is the reality that we are exposing, because we are the ones experiencing the oppresion first hand. The challenge then is how do we form coalitions with others who are asleep to the threat against democracy, How do we engage othes to battle this powerful force .

What he is saying – and what he says in his book – is that you can't hit their arguments head on. They aren't going to listen to "No you're wrong about that." You have to engage on an emotional level, really listen, and try to talk WITH them. That's true most of the time with people.

With fundies, it becomes a weird game of Taboo. Hit certain buttons, certain words (like pro-choice) and they will respond with the pre-programmed response. So, you have to work around that.

That's a very different thing than telling the IRS NOM is breaking the law. It's very different than protests, exposing lies, talking about them here. Those groups have power. We just saw that on Tuesday.

Anyone who thinks that ignoring them will make them go away just simply isn't paying attention. The reason the Religious Right is in power is BECAUSE people have ignored them and minimized their impact. Oh, that's just one preacher. Oh, that's just one organization. Oh…there are hundreds of them and are swaying public policy. CRAP.

Individuals are one thing. Powerful groups are entirely another.

Communication with middle Americans, about Nom could be helpfull, efforts there to engage and educate, and proceed with our movement to the courts and congress, Mobilze those folks that are not fundamentalists.

I also don't think Crazy for God was making any kind of point or recommending anything of the kind you are describing. He was just simply telling his story.

Wouldn't it be nice to hold a vigil outside the church so everyone could see rainbow flags when they leave, silent respectful presence to honor his spirit!!!!

It is about knowing the difference between fringe radicals like NOM, and affirming religions, the religious divide is about the extremists belief in inerrancy of scripture, that's radical,

I think the point is to not argue with Nom, but rather keep on our battle for rights through other channels.

NOM does not have to change their perspective in order for us to obtain our rights, we will walk over NOM to get there,

I like the goal of the guy who is doing the fast, to amend the civil rights act of 1964 to include sexual orientation, that is an all encompasing end goal.

I prefer strategies for grassroots organizing, with the middle ground channeling our energy their rather than giving NOM any more air time.

The left wing news channels are doing a good job of exposing the lies of the religious right,