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Final day of the NOM California tour: If at first you don’t succeed, try again 37 times and you might corral a small crowd of Latino/a people

NOM Exposed NOM Tour Tracker-California Right-wing

Hey, it took 10 days and nearly 40 stops, but Vota Tus Valores actually managed to stumble upon a small crowd of Latino voters (although it’s hard to not do on Olvera Street, and it’s up in the air as to how many are actually of voting age), and Alfonso managed to bring himself to talk to us. Will miracles never cease? -Adam

By Arisha Michelle Hatch

Stop #38: Los Angeles

It was raining when we arrived at the Panorama City Mall and the Vota Bus was nowhere to be found.

Security guards informed us that the event had been canceled. Apparently, the mall told them they weren’t welcome after being informed of the political nature of the event.

Too bad. There were tons of Latinos present to engage. If Vota Tus Valores was serious about voter engagement, they could have at least sent organizers over to hand out literature, sans the bus, but I digress.

At the Olvera Street stop in Los Angeles, Vota Tus Valores organizers attracted a crowd with music from Alan Marco (previously incorrectly reported as Alan Campo) and Rafael Valazquez led a mariachi band. In what was likely their most successful stop to date, approximately 22 people looked on (many Latino) stopped to enjoy the music as Vota Bus organizers handed out literature.

Largest crowd to date for a Vota Tus Valores stop

A group of Latino high school seniors were on a field trip scavenger hunt and stopped to hear the music. We got a chance to interview them about their views on Latino values (we’ll upload ASAP) and I will say that the future looks bright.

High schoolers and equality supporters in LA

And in a surprise move, Alfonso Aguilar broke his vow of silence to speak briefly with us on-camera.

IMG00369-20101006-1312

Although Allegra Huebert-Hewell and Thomas Peters, both organizers for the tour, attempted on several occasions to rush the interview we were able to discuss a few topics with Alfonso, including the wave of recent teen gay suicides, the overall “success” of the tour, marriage equality, Don’t Ask/Don’t Tell and the assault of our videographer, Anthony Ash, in Santa Ana on Monday.

We’ll upload that video as soon as we can, as well.

Now, Alfonso that wasn’t so bad was it?

You may now resume your vacation. Sorry to rain on your parade these past 10 days.

82 Comments Leave a Comment

  • 1. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 6, 2010 at 12:23 pm

    WhootScribing

  • 2. Kathleen  |  October 6, 2010 at 12:26 pm

    same

  • 3. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 6, 2010 at 12:28 pm

    After reading "Alan Marco" I suddenly started saying, "Marco, Polo." Ugh!

  • 4. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 6, 2010 at 12:31 pm

    Completely OT – but I admit kind of funny:

    Glenn Beck's 'historian' uses bad information to denigrate gay community

    David Barton is a so-called historian who has been a guest on Glenn Beck's show on numerous occasions.

    I guess that speaks to his "veracity," or lack thereof.

    Indeed, Media Matters has documented his errors on more than one occasion. Also according to writer Chris Rodda, Barton has no credentials to speak of:

    . . . many people have been pointing out that he has no degree in history. His educational credentials consist of a B.A. in religious education from Oral Roberts University, and an honorary doctorate from Pensacola Christian College

    As for myself, I seldom paid attention to Barton, though I am aware of his exploits with the Texas school board (Rodda's article is an excellent read). However, my interest perked up yesterday when I read how he choose to say a bunch of highly inaccurate things about the lgbt community.

    According to People for the American Way's Religious Right Watch, Barton and Rick Green of Wallbuilders was discussing the so-called need to "regulate homosexual behavior" on the radio yesterday. That was when Barton choose to spin his anti-gay yarn.

    For one thing, Barton didn't cite any sources for what he claimed, so allow me to do the best I can in disseminating where his distortions came from:

    Barton – Homosexuals die decades earlier than heterosexuals. That doesn't sound healthy.

    Truth – Barton may have gotten this from either the discredited work of Paul Cameron or a 1997 Canadian study. Cameron is the same man who had been dismissed or censured from several medical associations for distorting the credible medical information or not cooperating with investigations into his methodology.

    Now the authors of the Canadian study, in 2001, went on record complaining about how their work in 1997 was distorted.

    Barton – Nearly one-half of practicing homosexuals admit to five hundred or more sex partners and nearly one-third admit to a thousand or more sex partners in a lifetime.

    Truth – Barton could have gotten this from a number of places from Paul Cameron's phony data to statistics from STD clinics. However, it really doesn't matter. The meme that "gays are incredibly promiscuous" is a favorite of religious right spokespeople. Like Joseph McCarthy and his "communist list," they tend to change the number whatever audience they are addressing:

    There is more…

    More disillusionment: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alvin-mcewen/glenn-

  • 5. alaneckert  |  October 6, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    No Brian? I thought he was coming to save the day!

  • 6. Ronnie  |  October 6, 2010 at 12:39 pm

    "Apparently, the mall told them they weren’t welcome after being informed of the political nature of the event."

    hahahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahaha……HA!!!!..ha ha

    A mariachi band?…..really…can they be any more stereotypical …i mean really…a mariachi band?…..what no samba girls?…I know its for entertainment purposes..I enjoy a good mariachi band now & then…I love dancing to latino music…its really fun…but this is a political "tour" not a block a party…yeah it brought in the young crowd ….but from what you wrote I'm guessing all they were interested in was the music…that's cool…if that's what that money was being wasted on…but whatever….

    He's still tucking that woven shirt into his jeans….cringes… : / …Ronnie

  • 7. Gregory in SLC  |  October 6, 2010 at 12:40 pm

    LOL!!! sub

  • 8. Gregory in SLC  |  October 6, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    I thought I checked the box…

  • 9. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 6, 2010 at 12:42 pm

    Gregory, this is a really good article. I was thinking about you as I read it.

    Talking Back to a Mormon Elder: Religion versus Reality
    http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/sexandg

  • 10. Gregory in SLC  |  October 6, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    ummmm….really….checked box… technical difficulties perhaps…

    p.s. THANKS for preview Arisha! Looking forward to videos,et al. BTW enjoyed hearing your segment on Same-Sex Sundays…..brought back the emotion of "sometimes better not to meet your hero…or in this case your hero's niece…" Love 2 you! Gregory

  • 11. Sagesse  |  October 6, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    Since the tour is over, I guess they can't get any more inept…

  • 12. Dave in ME  |  October 6, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    Wait-the Panorama Mall??!??! I had no clue! I used to work there and my mom still lives near there. I'm glad they didn't show up there because my mom would have been pissed. She broke her foot and she wouldn't have been able to go protest them!!

    That used to be a different neighborhood, with a Robinson's and a Broadway department store. When Macy's bought the Broadway chain, they ditch Panorama City and let Wal-Mart buy the three story building that had been built in the 1950s. It's a very Latino area and I guess it would have been a good place to engage, yes.

    Dave in Maine

  • 13. Gregory in SLC  |  October 6, 2010 at 12:50 pm

    we can always hope ;)

  • 14. Rhie  |  October 6, 2010 at 12:52 pm

    scribin

  • 15. Fred  |  October 6, 2010 at 12:58 pm

    Thought I'd share so everyone's vote can be counted:

    The current Quick Vote poll at cnn.com is:

    How do you feel about gays and lesbians being able to marry legally? (Favor/Disfavor)

  • 16. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:05 pm

    Mighty Mouse was the one who was coming to save the day….Brian was coming in for damage control. Must have figured it was to late and decided to stay away LOL
    Chicken Sh%t!!

  • 17. Ronnie  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:06 pm

    LOL…Thalia…you have no idea how this music just makes me lose control…I get lost in it…my friends say my both just breaths & feeds off this music like…I love dancing so much…I wish I chose to do it professionally…all well we all have our paths not chosen….thanks for the video…

    & ROFL..If they played Ricky Martin then we would really know how out of touch with reality they are….<3…Ronnie

  • 18. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:08 pm

    Favor: 67%
    Disfavor: 37%

  • 19. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:09 pm

    I meant…….
    Favor: 63%
    Disfavor: 37%

  • 20. Richard A. Walter (s  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:10 pm

    I just wonder when they will learn that using fear tactics is becoming such a backfire tactic.

  • 21. Gregory in SLC  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    "…………………………." speechless :| as lovely as literature can be…bless you dear LLB for sharing.

    Ok, not entirely speechless as this Man's teachings has overshadowed me since I reached puberty. some favorite parts:

    "“Why would our Heavenly Father do that to anyone?” Why would create them and then condemn then? I agree with Elder Packer that he wouldn’t—not a kind, loving God that is our literally our Father in heaven. Unlike Elder Packer, however, I believe the fault lies with us; not with them. The fault lies in our interpretation of God’s law and His will."
    [it took me 40 years to get this interpretation right!]

    "I also worry about the members that accept Elder Packer’s logic and reach the same conclusion—that being gay is a choice. What happens when these same members discover otherwise? There is often a real sense of betrayal when the world is discovered to be something other than that promised by a trusted religious leader."
    [LIVED THIS ONE!!!!]

    the classic parallel:
    “We cannot change; we will not change,” Elder Packer declared. Didn’t we hear something similar from another apostle during the Church’s struggle with the issue of blacks and the priesthood?"
    [I recall the day this was announced....I couldn't understand exactly why, I was in my teens, but the announcement about the blacks and priesthood made my heart SING for JOY!...but was puzzled as my grandmother was not so optimistic.... what next for the Mormon church....in the words of Rhett Butler....]

  • 22. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:16 pm

    I agree. I loved his words…and the fact that he GETS IT! If those people would just open their eyes and believe what is right there in front of them, they would get it too.

  • 23. Gregory in SLC  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:22 pm

    It's a conundrum! The answer was there for me to embrace but it took meeting my Dear Hubby to wake up my heart to its full potential. I'm in awe of our straight allies who "get it" without having to have the man of their dreams to shock them into awareness and understanding. Bless all straight allies who "get it" !

  • 24. Gregory in SLC  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:30 pm

    Yay Ronnie! your comments like "tucking woven shirts" get me going LOLROTF! Glad you like the video…and fun to find out you love to dance :D My Latin partner too LOVES to dance…so much fun to dance with him Latin Sunday nights! Worth navigating the club scene and losing sleep!

  • 25. Gregory in SLC  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:32 pm

    :D

  • 26. Sagesse  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    We were discussing hate speech on an earlier thread:

    Supreme Court appears inclined to rule against funeral protesters
    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la

    This is another example where I would not be offended by reasonable limits. If a family has to cross public space between a church or funeral home and the cemetery, their grief is no less a private moment, and they should be protected from harassment.

  • 27. Sagesse  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:37 pm

    Perhaps better to say it would be a civil, respectful thing to protect them from harassment.

  • 28. Ronnie  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    In honor of the last day of NOM's Vota Tus Valores…I dedicate this video to those innocent lives we have lost recently because of suicide…not just our LGBT youth but all youth…..I am sure Selena Quintanilla-Perez sings in peace surrounded by the souls, angels or what ever becomes of our spirits in the next life of Tyler Clementi, Seth Walsh, Billy Lucas, Justin Aaberg, Phoebe Prince & more of all walks of life….also let us not forget the innocents who have died at the hands of other evil people such as Baby Ray, Lawrence King, Matthew Shepard, Gwen Araujo, Natalee Holloway, & Rev. Edward Hinds….

    I also dedicated this to those we have lost of other means….My Aunt June who died of Breast Cancer in 1991, My Uncle Charlie whose body finally succumbed to HIV & died of pneumonia a year later, 1992 the same day, & to all those you have all lost….Rest in Peace….watch over us from where ever you are…..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U9BSpdDH_c

  • 29. JonT  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    Sure, what the heck.

  • 30. JonT  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:55 pm

    'Barton – Nearly one-half of practicing homosexuals admit to five hundred or more sex partners and nearly one-third admit to a thousand or more sex partners in a lifetime.'

    Wow, do I have *alot* of catching up to do.

  • 31. Kathleen  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Remember that this case really isn't so much about 'can WBC et al protest at funerals?' it's a question of whether Snyder can collect damages in a tort. It's possible that the Court may have something to say about the broader question, but that isn't strictly what's in front of the Court.

    Many states/cities have passed laws restricting the ability to protest at funerals – primarily in response to the WBC – and those laws are being challenged in the courts. One of those will likely wind up at the Supreme Court and that will be the case that will address head on the question of how much restriction is allowed.

  • 32. Ann S.  |  October 6, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    same same

  • 33. Kathleen  |  October 6, 2010 at 2:01 pm

    Also, I haven't read the briefs, but I read the transcript of the oral arguments and what I heard was more concern about the things the WBC put on their website than the actual protest on the day of the funeral. I wasn't left with a feeling that the Court is inclined to rule against Phelps.

  • 34. Ronnie  |  October 6, 2010 at 2:10 pm

    I've only been with 3 guys since I was 21 in which only one of them I have been fully sexual with…I'm 26yo so at that rate I will be dead of old age before I reach half of that ridiculous stereotype statistic….I'm just saying…..I guess I'm not a "practicing homosexual"….BTW…what the frak is that?…"practicing homosexual"…..like its an olympic game or something….I wonder want season that would fit into, Winter or Summer?……speedos…enough said…. ; ) …..Ronnie

  • 35. Ronnie  |  October 6, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Ok so that math is nowhere near correct by me…that stereotype number is so unrealistic….did somebody lie on whatever survey they filled out?…I could never imagine myself having been with that many people….were these hustlers they were surveying?…I mean really…..I want to date….eventually find the right guy…Marry him…& that's it…honestly sex is the last thing on my mind…for crying out loud make it stop…make it stop…my head hurts now….. : / ….Ronnie

  • 36. Ann S.  |  October 6, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    Ronnie, I guess it's like that joke we make about "practicing law" — one of these days we'll get it right.

  • 37. alaneckert  |  October 6, 2010 at 2:47 pm

    I know only one guy who had slept with more than 1000 guys, but he had a serious problem.

  • 38. Joe  |  October 6, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    I want to preface this by saying these are not my beliefs. To Gregory, churches that believe homosexuality is a sin and also believe a person doesn't have a choice about it do not generally preach that gay people are condemned, they do preach that acting on your sinful nature is what condemns you. Their belief is that you may not be able to choose to be straight but you can choose not to lead a gay lifestyle.

    What they fail to see is that, like requiring celibacy from priests, they are forcing you to lead a lonely loveless existence. They will continue to fail, until they realize that all love comes from God, and that your love is exactly the same as ours.

  • 39. Elizabeth Oakes  |  October 6, 2010 at 3:14 pm

    Hey, any more word on the Anthony assault? I want to know if they ever identified the guy…..

    And now that the FailBust Trek is over, I guess we're back to waiting for the next brief to be filed in Perry v. Schwarrtzenegger, huh? End of next week, right?

  • 40. Joel  |  October 6, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    @Joe:
    This is the LAST place that I would ever expect to see someone using that tired old phrase "gay lifestyle."

  • 41. Joel  |  October 6, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    I'm not a "practicing" homosexual either. I've finally reached a level of competency that I don't need to practice anymore.

  • 42. HunterR.  |  October 6, 2010 at 3:40 pm

    Great analysis of the role of religion in creating homophobia.

    "With dualistic conceptions of good and evil and hierarchical notions of value and worth, it becomes easy to know who it is okay to hate or to bully or, seemingly more benignly, to ignore. And no institutions have done more to create and perpetuate the public disapproval of gay and lesbian people than churches."
    http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/sexandg

  • 43. Bob  |  October 6, 2010 at 4:19 pm

    Okay, I'm the guy, time for some truth, I'm one of the guys that slept with more men than I know, and it definetly could be in the thousands.

    It was a sexual addiction, same a drinking or drugs, which also are addicitons, once you start you can't get enough, and there are others who have had that approach to sexualtiy.

    When you believe you are not capable of love and your affection for men is satanic, I chose to endulge that aspect of myself, rather than suicide, I said I wasgoing to have one hell of a party first, Addictions overpowered me, and became the only way to feel good.

    I spent most of my adolescence in that scene, and I know I'm not alone, so those are not just lies or fake stories, or stats to discredit us. They were many peoples initial reaction to the hate we experienced, we danced partied and had fun f k you was the motto of the time….

    So glad it's behind me, and so amazed how off track I had been, so grateful to know here the stories of it gets better, and realize there are people who approach it from a healthy loving perspecttive, mostly due to supportive families………

    the guys with the thousand partners exist but most are influenced by addiction, poverty, and unhealthy self image, not to mention mental health issues, which leads to distructive behavior…. this group of men has been studied in HIV clinics, and they do exist….I have participated in those studies in the past….

    I no longer am driven by addiction, and value my marriage,

  • 44. Rhie  |  October 6, 2010 at 5:04 pm

    There is often a real sense of betrayal when the world is discovered to be something other than that promised by a trusted religious leader.”

    This is absolutely true. I described it as if I found out that my grandma was a big time meth dealer. (none of my grandmothers are for the record). It's that deep sense of "what the hell?!" that causes all kinds of internal confusion, Depression, anger…it's just awful.

    For me, it ended up being a good thing. I found out that what I was taught about people who use weed was absolutely wrong. I started wondering what ELSE my church was wrong about and went exploring. I found a new and better world of acceptance and love.

    TL;DR I agree with you.

  • 45. draNgNon  |  October 6, 2010 at 5:09 pm

    to be honest, I don't think protests at a funeral are really free speech matters. free speech means, free; you are free to have your say, and others are free not to listen to you.

    that simply does not obtain at a funeral proceeding. it's a funeral and it's not like they can walk away and come back later when you are done being tiresome with what you have to say.

    —–
    anyhow, apart from my opinion above, my understanding is that they actually attacked the soldier's family, both at the protest and on the website, not with generic "this is happening becuase of America's policies" but with much more specific and personal statements. the ruling is of interest, or so I read in the LA Times article and elsewhere, becuase it really could affect what gets posted to the world wide web.

    a ruling against Phelps in this case will probably spell financial ruin for that guy Shirvell in Michican, I bet. if I was Armstrong I'd sue him in a heartbeat if I thought I had a precedent backing me up.

  • 46. Rhie  |  October 6, 2010 at 5:25 pm

    Ronnie —

    It's the same kind of math they use when they try to say how many showed up to some kind of Religious Right rally. Take the actual number and multiple by about 100. So what 500 means is really about five, etc.

  • 47. Sapphocrat  |  October 6, 2010 at 6:02 pm

    "Vota Tus Valores actually managed to stumble upon a small crowd of Latino voters (although it’s hard to not do on Olvera Street…"

    Like "stumbling" upon a group of Teh Gays in the Castro. "Gee, folks! Look! They must have been waiting for us!" LOL

    Arisha, you and the whole gang deserve some sort of medal. Very seldom has any series made me laugh as hard as this one. I was expecting to get angry, but — except for the assault incident, of course — I didn't.

    That's not as strange as it sounds — I think I'm not so much getting immune to these bozos as simply seeing them for the bozos they are.

    And that is a healthy (and powerful) thing indeed, for all of us. What they're doing to us is deadly serious — but what we can do right back — and to which you have contributed, in spades — is just as, if not more than, effective.

    In the words of Mel Brooks (in one of many ways he said it, many times), re Hitler:

    "If you stand on a soapbox and trade rhetoric with a dictator you never win… That’s what they do so well: they seduce people. But if you ridicule them, bring them down with laughter, they can’t win. You show how crazy they are."

    That's what you have done: shown how crazy they are, while injecting just the right amount of ridicule they deserve.

    Brava. No, wait — Bravissima!

    *applause*

    Thank you, Arisha. Thank you, all you intrepid Trackers. :)

  • 48. Phil L  |  October 6, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    Hmm… I suppose a total of two isn't quite up to snuff here. I am 28 and not getting any younger, so I guess I need to put my ten year old monogamous relationship on hold so I can catch up with Mr. Nutcase's statistics.

    :p

  • 49. Phil L  |  October 6, 2010 at 6:15 pm

    OT

    Has there been any report on Maggie's debacle (I mean "debate") at Yale?

  • 50. Gregory in SLC  |  October 6, 2010 at 7:47 pm

    ….How about at least an old Thalia video!?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z93N6tMpAo

  • 51. Gregory in SLC  |  October 6, 2010 at 7:48 pm

    or better yet Ricky Martin!!! wouldn’t that just be the icing on the cake! :D

  • 52. Sagesse  |  October 6, 2010 at 9:24 pm

    True, but if the oh-so-clever Mr Phelps and his daughter end up paying damages as the cost of their free speech, that represents a 'limit'.

  • 53. Phil L  |  October 6, 2010 at 10:08 pm

    Here we go guys: a bit of coverage of the Yale debate.

    It sounds like Maggie got her rear handed to her by guest speakers:

    Ken Cornet, a justice of the peace in Washington, Conn. who spoke at the debate, said marriage is about more than the social advantages the government grants.

    “Should my vows be ‘Does this penis take this vagina for a bundle of rights? Tax advantages?’” Cornet asked.

    Cornet said he has issued marriage licenses to both same-sex and opposite-sex couples, and thinks same-sex commitments are compatible with the universal vows to love, honor and cherish a partner for life.

    Al Riccio, a guest speaker from Southern Connecticut State University who identifies as male and transgender, said the work of the National Organization for Marriage has contributed to high suicide rates among LGBTQ teens. Children who are victims of homophobia are now a public health disaster, he said.

    “If you’re concerned about children,” Riccio said to Gallagher, “it’s clear you’re only concerned about the straight ones.”

    http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2010/oct/07/gal

  • 54. Anonygrl  |  October 6, 2010 at 10:40 pm

    500? That is a LOT of practicing! You would think with that much practice, homosexuals would be PERFECT!

  • 55. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  October 6, 2010 at 11:05 pm

    I think this was the 70's and it was not "just the gays" running around…"Plato's Retreat" was in full uh.."swing" during that era of sexual revolution.

    I was one of those gays who experimented, sneaked, cheated on my wife. I was so absolutely disgusted and frustrated with my inexpicable behavior.

    The end of the story is I met my partner and I found monogamy (what we choose for our relationship) is takes no effort and natural. So for me, living a straight relationship with a woman is sinful and unnatural. DOH!! Why didn't someone tell me!? So you meet the person of your dreams, fall in love, negotiate a relationship, commit to one another, have the dream of getting married, having a house, traveling together, adopting children, planting a garden, donating time and effort for good causes, having myriad of passionate in-depth discussions about local and global issues …

    Wouldn't it make more sense Glenn "Mormon" Beck and David Barton to teach people to be who they are instead of trying FORCE them to be something they are not? P.s. I hope you get more sex so you will stop being so obsessed by what happens in my bedroom! Its none of you damn business. I certainly do NOT care about your "sex/sexless" life!

  • 56. Tomato  |  October 6, 2010 at 11:23 pm

    Oh, dear… I'm so far behind with only 4 in my lifetime! And I'm "over the hill" and married.

    How am I to ever manage to live up to the stereotype now?

  • 57. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  October 6, 2010 at 11:28 pm

    Hi Bob! Yep, I know those stats are true…I've observed it first hand, dabbled in dark places myself. I mentioned above that its not just the Gays…. the 70's was a pretty big sex party. I puzzled about some of the dynamics about this but I'm not convinced about the "addiction" theory….. Found a great documentary related to this:

    Gay Sex in the 70's: http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/Gay-Sex-in-the-70s

    Evidence it was not "just the gays" as "American Swing" tells: http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/American-Swing/701

    Love 2 you Bob! for telling your story…another tale suffering imposed by the religious morality that suffocated/suffocates so many of us. ((BIG HUG!!)

  • 58. Tomato  |  October 6, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    Thank you, Phil L.

  • 59. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  October 6, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    Wonderful Article LLB! Recommend reading to all! Thank you! (p.s. I love Pam's House!…Is it someone from the p8tt family?)

  • 60. adambink  |  October 6, 2010 at 11:58 pm

    Right?!

  • 61. Kate  |  October 7, 2010 at 12:34 am

    I don't even KNOW that many people, much less in the biblical sense.

  • 62. elliom  |  October 7, 2010 at 12:44 am

    [youtube

    63. elliom  |  October 7, 2010 at 12:45 am

    This brought back memories. I used to LOVE MM as a kid!

  • 64. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  October 7, 2010 at 12:45 am

    LOL Kate!

  • 65. fiona64  |  October 7, 2010 at 1:30 am

    Perhaps Joe would like to enlighten us on the "gay lifestyle" and how it differs from a "straight lifestyle" — or any other "lifestyle" for that matter.

    I keep asking, my gay friends keep asking … and no one has an answer.

    Love from one whose GLBT friends' "lifestyles" look an awful lot like hers,
    Fiona

  • 66. Anonygrl  |  October 7, 2010 at 2:11 am

    Since Joe prefaced his remarks with "these are not my beliefs", I think that his use of the phrase "gay lifestyle" was used in explaining the beliefs that ARE NOT HIS, but rather those of the church he was describing.

    I think a few people here may have missed that Joe is on our side, and KNOWS that "gay lifestyle" is a ridiculous phrase with no real meaning.

  • 67. me too bob  |  October 7, 2010 at 2:21 am

    Me too, Bob. I got help. It was indulge or suicide, so I'm glad I chose what I chose. .. Thank you for writing what you just wrote.

  • 68. MJFargo  |  October 7, 2010 at 2:53 am

    I don't even KNOW 500 men….

  • 69. Gregory in Salt Lake  |  October 7, 2010 at 2:58 am

    Glad U survived "me too!" Bless you!

  • 70. Ronnie  |  October 7, 2010 at 3:18 am

    I hope I didn't offend anybody…I guess what I meant is that the "1/2" & "1/3" stats seems unrealistic to me….I'm sure there are people (not hustlers or what not) that may have those numbers…not just limited to gay but straight as well.

    I'll admit I didn't realize it was based on outdated stats..but I should have because that is all the anti-gay side has….I don't know much about the sexual openness of the 70's well because I was born in the 1984….

    This is why I don't put much trust in polls or studies of this nature because they really are not representative of an entire community…& since things have changed since the 70's with it being a lot easier to come out & be Gay w/o being sexually active…& the desire to be in committed relationships & date being more the majority because of all the openness…those stats would be different now then they were then….I still think there's a little exaggeration involved though….

    Thank you for sharing that Bob & Gregory…I learned something new…& honestly I didn't mean to offend anybody… if that is what I did…then I apologize….<3…Ronnie

  • 71. AndrewPDX  |  October 7, 2010 at 3:32 am

    subscribing, late to the party

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
    Andrew

  • 72. Helen in Ireland  |  October 7, 2010 at 3:57 am

    'Barton – Nearly one-half of practicing homosexuals admit to five hundred or more sex partners and nearly one-third admit to a thousand or more sex partners in a lifetime.'

    Wow – SOMEONE was watching the character of 'Brian Kinney' on 'Queer as Folk'….!

  • 73. Jonathan H  |  October 7, 2010 at 6:01 am

    I'm a sucker for peer pressure.

  • 74. Gregory in Salt Lake City  |  October 7, 2010 at 6:35 am

    Clarification! “stats are true”, meaning, I know some have experienced the 100′s and 1000′s of encounters…but nearly 1/2? Well yea, if you only interview people who partied during the sexual revolutions. The distorted stats never consider the committed couples/families. I’m glad these families are starting to tell their stories and media is focusing on this aspect as well.

  • 75. Lesbians Love Boies  |  October 7, 2010 at 6:36 am

    I won’t reach my quota – ever. I hope that doesn’t mean I will lose my badge!

    Here is a good article from 2009 concerning those studies.

    http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/12267/how-religious-right-groups-distort-legitimate-research-to-demonize-the-gay-community

  • 76. JonT  |  October 7, 2010 at 6:36 am

    'gay lifestyle'

    Hmm, it that described somewhere, like maybe in that 'Gay Agenda' I keep hearing about? :)

  • 77. Tom Chicago  |  October 7, 2010 at 6:38 am

    Does anyone know if the Thomas Peters listed as an organizer of the tour is the same Thomas Peters that blogs as the "American Papist" at catholicvote.org ? He is totally hardline catholic doctrine anti-gay.

  • 78. Sagesse  |  October 7, 2010 at 6:39 am

    Where’s Alfred Kinsey when you really need him?

  • 79. Joe  |  October 7, 2010 at 9:14 am

    @Anonygrl thank you for reading the first part of my comment, I was merely trying to how churches try to justify their beliefs in a world where the perception of sexual orientation as a choice is becoming a thing of the past by making the the choice to be in a same-sex relationship the sin instead.

    Again, as a Christian, I firmly believe that love comes from God, no matter the gender combination involved.

    I am sorry if anything I said in this or the previous post offended, that was not my intent.

  • 80. Bob  |  October 7, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    Wow, I was scared to come back and see if there was any response to my post. Truth or Dare, sort of, I'm at a place in my life where I just want to tell it like it is, and lots wasn't pretty, in retrospect,

    Ronnie, you precious innocent thing, and to all those who can't comprehend, please take it as an opportunity to value yourself, and treasure your pleasure, preserve it and keep it safe, it is really to be shared with the one you love. Sex is a gift of God, which can be shared in the journey of love, I thought sex was love, just a little screwed up in my thinking.

    I have no idea , why I'm still alive, but it certainly is wonderful to see these stories of it gets better, and to see people actually loving each other, and to experience that myself, is beyond words.

    And you know what, I am so at PEACE with it all especially knowing that you're all proving NOM wrong, by finding LOVE, and sharing it.

  • 81. Kate  |  October 7, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Same one. He also posted here briefly. Very briefly.

  • 82. Paulie  |  October 8, 2010 at 6:01 am

    Any idea when these videos will be posted?

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