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#TheCallTurnoutFAIL? You be the judge.

NOM Exposed Right-wing TheCall

By Eden James

Well, there’s one thing we can definitely say about The Call Sacramento — it’s a much better-attended event than the typical NOM rally.

Anthony reports that the stands are about half to two-thirds full. The capacity of Raley Field is 14,680 so that means attendance is in the, er, ballpark of 7-10,000, to be generous, as there are a lot of people on the field as well.

But you can judge for yourself in this field view and panorama view split between two shots:

callstands2

callstands4

callstands3

Meanwhile, it looks like Arisha won’t be able to access a reliable internet connection until midnight at the earliest, so we’re going to post her report in the morning along with some more pics, etc.

Stay tuned for Day 2 of The Call, which will be happening all day Saturday (9 am to 9 pm) on the Capitol Mall in Sacramento…. if you can possibly stand it.

156 Comments

  • 1. Linda  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:26 pm

    So were they bused in? I'm guessing there was heavy recruitment from churches all over the state, but especially the northern half.

    (subscribing….)

  • 2. Max  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:27 pm

    Wow, that's the smallest group of half a million people I've ever seen. /s

  • 3. Kate  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:29 pm

    If they are supposed to be fasting, how can they get homeless folks in to swell the numbers for the press?

  • 4. Lightning Baltimore  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    Ha!

    My husband and I go to see monster trucks every January at the Georgia Dome. The Dome holds 65,000, and the event sells out every year. In fact, they now sell tickets a year in advance for the next one. Our tickets for 2011 are on the shelf above my desk, as a matter of fact.

    It's refreshing that huge trucks flying through the air and getting smashed up has a bigger draw than than a rally for hatred in the name of love.

  • 5. Dave in CA  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:34 pm

    I wonder what they think this going to accomplish — maybe they think they can pray for new evidence to be introduced ex post facto into the Prop 8 trial record, like manna from heaven?

    I suspect it will line some people's pockets with cash, if nothing else.

  • 6. Lora  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    Ugh! I live about 5 blocks from the capitol…guess I should keep my distance tomorrow!!

  • 7. Steven  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:41 pm

    it d be quite interesting tonight and tomorrow. They think they are on the winning side of "traditional marriage" fight! Courts are there for justice for all, not for bigotry. Does anybody know if they "PJI" already filed an appeal to CASC?

  • 8. Linda  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:43 pm

    They are rallying the troops to launch a Holy War, with the first major battle taking place in November.

  • 9. Kate  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    I hope Judge Walker watches these doughnuts spew out their hatred this weekend.

  • 10. Phillip R  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:51 pm

    Is this group related to the "Above the influence" drug commercials you see online? Their logos look identical but I could be getting confused. Just curious.

  • 11. Tony Douglass in Ca  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:52 pm

    Either that or the last dying gasp of a dying race, kinda like the dinosaurs!! Anybody see asteroid SSM fly by???

  • 12. Jeff  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:54 pm

    I think Saterday will be a bigger day fo them – it'soat likely locals and oit of staters tonight – the instate people will moat likely come in greater numbera in the weekend.

    Also when they did the call in San Diego there was a fair bit of controversy because they counted numbers by turnstile but let people come and go making the numbers larger than reality…

  • 13. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:57 pm

    Could it be that the people who were invited saw through the pretensions and figured they had better things to do with their Labor Day weekend that attend a hate rally?

  • 14. Jeff  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Sorry for the typos… IPhone on the treadmill LOL;)

  • 15. Dave in CA  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:59 pm

    Holy War. Jihad. I would love to see a news organization, or another video breakdown, and cover this with a side by side comparison to … oh… say… the Taliban.

  • 16. Ronnie  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    Are they doing the Y.M.C.A.in that first photo?….rofl….<3…Ronnie

  • 17. Kate  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    And just like at the NOM rallies, they'll count procreation potential, each unconceived being another attendee.

  • 18. Linda  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:00 pm

    I checked their website, which is rather cryptic, to say the least. It would seem that they are hesitant to go into detail on their views; anyway, according to their site they've been 'calling' people from all across the United States to converge on Sac. this week-end.

    Hmm….maybe their flights are delayed….? I mean, I'm sure they're all coming…..being 'called' and all…….

  • 19. Linda  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:03 pm

    It would, actually. Do a side by side with no sound, and try to find the difference.

  • 20. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:05 pm

    Or the KKK. Remember, according to the KKK, they were fighting a holy war.

  • 21. Linda  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:11 pm

    I hope so. I would love to see a lackluster turn out.

  • 22. draNgNon  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:12 pm

    I gotta say, if I wanted to spend any time this weekend at a gathering of tens of thousands of people to celebrate what can best be called a quasi-religious ceremony which can induce a spiritual, mind-blowing, but uplifting experience, risking dehydration, organ damage, …

    Sacramento is not it. I'd rather be about 6 hours northeast of there

  • 23. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:16 pm

    I just know more than half of them are at Denny's tonight….fast or no fast. It's how they approach everything; "YOU better stick to 'God's Rules'….but it's not so bad if I have a side of chilli fries. An'a Big Gulp. get serious! YOU'RE the sinner, not me."

    (The ones that are fasting must be getting a really jacked-up, crazy-eyed look about now.)

  • 24. Kate  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Uh, Burning Man???

  • 25. Linda  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    All they need is some Peyote.

    Just sayin'…

  • 26. Kate  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    It's Christian Ramadan, Collie.

  • 27. shrpblnd  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:24 pm

    There is no love in Texas today. A Texas appeals court just upheld their same-sex marriage ban, finding the state did have a rational basis in "fostering relationships that will serve children best."
    http://jurist.org/paperchase/2010/09/texas-appeal

  • 28. Stats Girl  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:26 pm

    I'm glad someone else noticed that; I was worried I was the only one…

  • 29. Lora  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:32 pm

    And yet another reason that makes me wonder why my gay sister moved to Texas….on purpose!!

  • 30. Lora  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Yes, my fundamental christian parents are 2 for 2!
    Two daughters…both gay!

  • 31. Kate  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:33 pm

    To me, that looks like a lot of people (I hate to even call them that), but I don't know how many Engle et al think they can bring in. No matter how few show up, no doubt the reported figure will be in the millions.

  • 32. Kate  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:36 pm

    Congratulations to your parents for their 100 percent success rate!

  • 33. Carol  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:37 pm

    I don't think so. The court's website doesn't show it. I'm surprised, because it sounded like they were going to file right away. Maybe they had a reality check,though.

  • 34. Linda  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    Sounds like a bunch of activist, heterosexual judges at work in Texas.

    But…are we going to allow Texas to impose their values on the rest of our country???

  • 35. Kate  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    Didn't the Perry DIs make these same "arguments?"

  • 36. shrpblnd  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Yes, they did. It just goes to show how different judges can come to different conclusions and how we could potentially lose an appeal at the Ninth Circuit, or the Supreme Court.

  • 37. Linda  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Yes. I guess we had more evidence.

    Let's hear it for Olson and Boies et al!!!

  • 38. Dave in CA  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:45 pm

    I just watched Huckabee's video. Such a sad and fearful and frightened view of the world. They gather together to fast and pray and hope to be shown mercy from their god, rather than gathering to thank him for all his blessings and celebrate his gifts and generosity. Their god (at least, as they see him) is a nasty, mad, angry boogeyman instead of a wise and beneficent Creator who gave them the gift of life.

    I saw an episode of the Simpsons not too long ago where Marge wondered aloud, "What kind of religion would ask its followers to eat the flesh and drink the blood of its murdered Savior?"

    I don't remember where I heard this, but someone once pointed out that Christianity might be the only modern religion that worships before an ancient instrument of torture.

    And last thought that comes to me tonight is from a teacher who thought that the most egregiously mistranslated idea of the ancient Biblical texts was that God was to be "feared." The original texts (he claimed) went more along the lines that God was something to be held in awe of, to be inspired by, to be treated with respect and reverence. But that is a far cry from being made to be afraid of him.

  • 39. Kate  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:56 pm

    Re that crucifix deal …. I have for years thought that we ought to make jewelry of, say, an electric chair just to show them the hideousness of their worship.

  • 40. Lightning Baltimore  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:58 pm

    Around twenty years ago, I was walking back home from from somewhere when I looked down and saw a tiny booklet called Bible Verses for Children. Seriously, tiny: 2" x 2&frac12;".

    I picked it up and opened it and the first passage was Psalms 34:11:

    Come, ye children, hearken unto me: and I will teach you the fear of the Lord

    What young child wouldn't be enthralled at the idea of living in terror! Hooray!

  • 41. Kate  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:02 pm

    Uh …. How can one state find marriage discrimination violates the US Constitution and another finds it doesn't? Please pardon my legal ignorance .. What sort of impact might this ruling have on Perry?

  • 42. Kate  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    Oh goodie, goodie! Sign me up!

  • 43. Kathleen  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:26 pm

    subscribing

  • 44. Michael  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:28 pm

    Wow, it is a miracle! Imagine all the problems (adultery, 50% divorce rate, fornication, unfaithfullness, spousal abuse, infidelity, etc.) facing heterosexual marriage miraculously CURED! And all it took was thousands of people to revile and attack law-abiding, taxpaying, gay Americans for wanting to take part in the institution of marriage.

  • 45. Kathleen  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:29 pm

    Tell your parents, "Well done!" from me. :)

  • 46. Dave in CA  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:30 pm

    But what a profound difference if the verse read (and I suspect this is probably closer to its meaning):

    Come, ye children, hearken unto me and I will teach you the awesomeness of the Lord.

    Okay, here's my true confession: My dad was a Lutheran pastor (quite liberal, too) and he railed at fundamentalism, "They treat it as if God had dictated it directly to King James himself," he said once.

  • 47. Kathleen  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:36 pm

    This has no impact on Perry. First, it is a Texas state court, not a federal court. And even if it were a federal district court, it would not be binding precedent on another federal court – just as Walker's decision isn't binding on another federal district court.

  • 48. Lightning Baltimore  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:49 pm

    Sadly, it appears most popular translations use the word fear:

    American Standard Version

    Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of Jehovah.

    Amplified Bible

    Come, you children, listen to me; I will teach you to revere and worshipfully fear the Lord.

    Contemporary English Version

    Come, my children, listen as I teach you to respect the LORD.

    Darby Translation

    Come, ye sons, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of Jehovah.

    English Standard Version

    Come, O children, listen to me; I will teach you the fear of the LORD.

    GOD'S WORD Translation

    Come, children, listen to me. I will teach you the fear of the Lord.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible

    Come, children, listen to me; I will teach you the fear of the LORD.

    King James Version

    Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the LORD.

    New American Standard Bible

    Come, you children, listen to me; I will teach you the fear of the LORD.

    New Century Version

    Children, come and listen to me. I will teach you to worship the Lord.

    New International Reader's Version

    My children, come. Listen to me. I will teach you to have respect for the Lord.

    New International Version

    Come, my children, listen to me; I will teach you the fear of the LORD.

    New King James Version

    Come, you children, listen to me; I will teach you the fear of the LORD.

    New Living Translation

    Come, my children, and listen to me, and I will teach you to fear the Lord.

    The Message

    Come, children, listen closely; I'll give you a lesson in God worship.

    Today's New International Version

    Come, my children, listen to me; I will teach you the fear of the LORD.

    21st Century King James Version

    Come, ye children, hearken unto me; I will teach you the fear of the LORD.

    Young's Literal Translation

    Come ye, children, hearken to me, The fear of Jehovah I do teach you.

    Source: BibleGateway.com, one of my favorite sites! You can look up every passage in the Bible in multiple translations.

  • 49. Vanessa  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Christians suck. Period end of story.

  • 50. AndrewPDX  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:06 pm

    Late to the party. Thank you Arisha for going into the Lion's Den for us! You and Anthony and Phyllis and everyone are so much stronger than I could be. Please, have a whole box of cookies and lots and lots of MILK!

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
    Andrew

  • 51. Ann S.  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Late to the party, we were out for the evening watching our daughter play in the orchestra for a youth production of "Into the Woods".

  • 52. Bolt  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:20 pm

    No hate on straight.

  • 53. Bolt  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:23 pm

    I know exactly how you feel; however, some xtians are uber equality minded, and don't deserve the same negative association as the xtian bigots.

    We're going to rock the bigots tiny mental worlds!

  • 54. Eden James  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:35 pm

    Anyone interested in doing some research to find out?

  • 55. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:14 pm

    No Vanessa not all Christians suck…I am one of thousands, tens of thousands of Gay Christians.
    It is not Christianity that sucks but rather those that twist the teachings of Love into something so ugly and so very hateful that do. :-)

  • 56. BK  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:48 pm

    Oh my goodness! I love this quote:

    "Quoteworthy

    “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ”

    —C.S. Lewis "

    And this quote came from… guess where? Of all places, the Citizenlink Daily Update! :O I signed up for it to keep track of what they're doing, and found this in my inbox just a minute ago. Love it! It is so… I don't know… awesome! :D What do you guys think?

  • 57. Marlene  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    Or the National Socialists, since both raise their right arms into the air…

  • 58. Marlene  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    That's because the religious reicht, like all totalitarian systems, works on fear and intimidation to keep its victims controlled.

  • 59. GRod  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:58 pm

    @shrpblnd. Thanks for posting. Do you or others have a link to the decision itself? I understand that appeal court decisions can be referred to be in other legal proceedings and courts as a precedent. Persumably this wil be appealed to the Texas Supremes.

  • 60. Dave in CA  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:59 pm

    Here is what the opening paragraph on their site says, on the page for the Sacramento event:

    "Ten years ago, four hundred thousand primarily young people, the consecrated ones, the Nazirites… "

    The Nazirites. Hmmm. Put a hyphen in there just so, and you get the "Nazi-rites." How a propos.

  • 61. Apricot  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:02 pm

    These people are NOT Christians.

    They push a political agenda under the name of Christianity so that it may give their philosophy divine unquestioning authority. As a Christian, my religion is about love, not about social political control.

  • 62. Straight grandmother  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:53 pm

    http://womenborntranssexual.com/2010/09/02/gay-an

  • 63. Sagesse  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    It depends on the evidence that was put forward in each case. The court can't rule on what is not before it. Not that the Texas courts really wanted a different outcome.

  • 64. Ray in MA  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    Are these Judges in Texas ELECTED or APPOINTED???

  • 65. Ray in MA  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:46 pm

    Well this explains a lot…I decided to research myself, and I was amazed at the results…

    These Judges were elected or appointed.

    Many of them were appointed by some a$$hole named Rick Perry.
    http://www.supreme.courts.state.tx.us/court/justi

    Wonder no more …

  • 66. Ray in MA  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:55 pm

    Out of 9:

    Chief Justice Jefferson was appointed chief justice September 14, 2004, by Gov. Rick Perry.

    Gov. Rick Perry appointed Justice Medina

    Justice Johnson was appointed to the Court on March 15, 2005, by Gov. Rick Perry.

    Don Willett was appointed to the Texas Supreme Court in August 2005 by Governor Rick Perry

    Justice Eva Guzman was appointed to the Court October 8, 2009, by Texas Gov. Rick Perry

    Debra H. Lehrmann was appointed to the Court by Governor Rick Perry on June 21, 2010

    Why did waste all that time and money in this decision…looks like Rick Perry decided it all!

    I can now see why the Governor of Texas is such a powerful position… I hope we don't see another President coming out of that place!

  • 67. BK  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    I looked at both their websites and wikipedia; googled for info, too. I can't find anything. Anyone else have better luck? Because it is really weird how similar their logos are. :-/

  • 68. BK  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:22 pm

    It's great that she moved to Texas, in my opinion. We need more gays living in anti-gay communities. Familiarity lessens fear. And who knows? Maybe a few of her neighbors will see how awesome gay people really are. :)

  • 69. BK  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:26 pm

    Hi five, Mark. :)
    I'm a gay follower of Christ, too.

  • 70. Sagesse  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:30 pm

    Mass. Catholic H.S. Dean, Athletic Director Loses Job Over Gay Marriage
    http://www.edgeboston.com/index.php?ch=news&s

    Interesting side note at the end of the story about a child who was denied admission to a Catholic school because his parents were lesbians. "An archdiocese official later contacted the women to offer assistance in getting the child admitted to a different Catholic school…" Religious freedom at its finest.

  • 71. Sagesse  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    From the Boxer – Fiorina debate, on the subject of marriage equality

    [youtube

    72. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:39 pm

    At least with Ramadan, the fast is only from sunrise to sunset. Yes, we have fasts in Judaism, also, but usually only for one day, and there are provisions in the Talmud for those who have health concerns that would make a fast very dangerous. But the forty days of fasting that these folks are calling for is rather extreme, and as others have pointed out, rather dangerous.

  • 73. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:47 pm

    Especially since we tend to have feelings of awe, being inspired, respect, and reverence for those we love and care for. I have always seen awe, inspiration, respect, and reverence as positives, not negatives such as fear.

  • 74. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    And has anyone noticed that the tables used for lethal injection take the same form as the crucifix?
    Just saying…….

  • 75. Sagesse  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:01 am

    Jerry Brown interviewed by The Advocate

    Ten Questions for Jerry Brown
    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/09/0

  • 76. Fulton  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:04 am

    Nietzsche saw Christianity and Judaism as the religion of slaves… not that I agree. Nietzsche was reacting to the nihilism of the time. But sometimes, all I hear from Crosstians (as Shaw named them) sound more like 'submit to the will of the King/Master/God' than love thy neighbor or even 'when you visit someone in prison, you visit me.' I hear these things and I wonder.

  • 77. Sagesse  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:08 am

    Kerry Eleveld criticizes Washington Post endorsement of Delano Hunter
    http://www.advocate.com/Politics/Washington_D_C_/

  • 78. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:08 am

    These fools have conscripted a term for a very particular and very personal form a vows in Judaism. If they are going to call themselves Nazirites, they need to go back and read about the requirements for taking a Nazirite vow. First, you have to go to the priest, and the priest is to shave your head for the taking of the vow, and you are to wear sackcloth and ashes for the term of your vow. And yes, you have to state how long you are bound by your Naizirite vow, and you have to set a certain time frame, such as a week, a month, or a year. No indefinite times listed, and no, you cannot go under a Nazirite vow that will last your entire lifetime. Also, while under a Nazirite vow, you do not drink wine, you must remain celibate, and there are a lot of other requirements for the vow, and I am quite certain that the ones who are currently calling themselves Nazirites are not following ANY of the requirements for the vows.

  • 79. Sagesse  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:11 am

    The Advocate defers to Courage Campaign's coverage of 'The Call'

    Conservatives Answer "The Call"
    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/09/0

  • 80. Sagesse  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:17 am

    A victory for protecting all children from bullying

    N.Y. Governor to Sign Antibullying Bill
    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/09/0

  • 81. Paul in Minneapolis  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:20 am

    I read this one last night, and it came to mind immediately as I watched the clip of the debate you posted above. To quote just a couple thoughts from the article:

    There is no gray any longer, no hair-splitting, no rationalization or triangulation that suffices anymore. If you don’t support same-sex marriage, you don’t support equality and that is quite simply homophobic.

    You tell me, what editorial board today could justify writing, “Candidate Doe isn’t the racist her critics make her out to be, but rather someone who thinks there is a way to provide equality to interracial couples while respecting those who believe that allowing people of different races to wed would taint the institution of marriage.”

    Equality does not discriminate. It does not compromise based on convenience, it does not prefer one person’s humanity to that of another’s and fortify some while damning others. If you do not support equality in every corner of our nation, in every institution for every individual, you discriminate. Period.

  • 82. AndrewPDX  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:27 am

    <cite>that the ones who are currently calling themselves Nazirites are not following ANY of the requirements for the vows.</cite>

    Well, that would be on par with how they call themselves 'Christians' when they are definitely not followers of Christ.

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
    Andrew

  • 83. Bolt  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:32 am

    Good morning everyone, Peace and love.

  • 84. anonygrl  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:50 am

    Some do, yes. Not all. A great many are actually on our side, because they realize that one half of Jesus' most important lesson was "LOVE your neighbor as yourself…"

    Now, I know it is difficult for some Christians to understand that this was Jesus most important lesson, because he only said "love the Lord your God with all your heart, your mind and your soul. This is the first, the great commandment. The second," he said, "is like it. Love your neighbor as yourself."

    (sarcasm) But I can TOTALLY see where someone might confuse that with "hate homosexuals, atheists, worshippers of other religions, Christians who think love is more important than hate, or anyone else who is different than you are. But especially homosexuals, because God gets the heebeejeebies about sex that you think might be icky!" (/sarcasm)

    Thank goodness there are some that do understand that lesson, and do love their neighbors, and do stand up for what is right. Don't dismiss them Vanessa. These Christians are the good guys!

  • 85. Josiah  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:54 am

    As others have said, not all Christians are intolerant bigots. Let's not meet intolerance with intolerance.

  • 86. Linda  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:54 am

    Here's an article about Engle….

    Let's see if I can get it to paste…
    http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/12/20/22402

  • 87. AndrewPDX  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:01 am

    I always wonder… why do we say 'suck' as if that's a bad thing? ;)

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
    Andrew

  • 88. anonygrl  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:01 am

    Wikipedia has an interesting article about Nazirites, and it deals quite a bit about the rule about not cutting one's hair.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazirite

    In those pictures, does it look like any of those kids don't get regular haircuts?

  • 89. Cat  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:01 am

    A gem of a quote. If I ever have to talk to Maggie or BBtheBrownSuit, I will only recite this quote, cross my arms, and smile patiently in silence.

  • 90. Linda  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:04 am

    Question: should SS Couples have the same federal protections that OS couples have?

    Answers:
    Fiorina–I support OS marriage, and prop 8 shouldn't have been overturned; but hey, I approve the repeal of DADT.

    Boxer–Our constitution is designed to allow for checks and balances. And I support marriage equality, because the only way to ensure marriage protections for all is to have equality for all.

    Now who actually answered the question?

  • 91. AndrewPDX  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:08 am

    well, as it was a simple yes/no question, technically neither answered the question.

  • 92. Cat  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:09 am

    Fiorina completely ducks the question on equal rights at the federal level, and just recites a carefully pre-written statement. How typical…

  • 93. Sagesse  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:11 am

    About the SPLC documentary 'Bullied'

    New Gay Street Beat Podcast (Featuring Me!) Talks the New Documentary "Bullied", LGBT Youth, Media, & More
    http://www.bilerico.com/2010/09/new_gay_street_be

  • 94. DazedWheels  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:13 am

    Just checking in. Hi everyone and, echoing Bolt, peace and love.

  • 95. Linda  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:15 am

    Oh, I heard Boxer answer it. Granted, she elaborated; but she did say that she supports marriage equality *because* that's the only way to guarantee equal protections.

    That's a 'yes' vote to me.

  • 96. Cat  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:17 am

    Another great argument for courts. Where is Boies when you need him? I'd like to see him cross-examine Fiorina. I would guess (not knowing her, it's just a hunch) she wouldn't really mind having marriage equality, but knows that won't get her the votes she needs. All this "I have always been consistent" sounds very artificial.

  • 97. Linda  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:20 am

    And what's with this 'one judge' thing? Don't they *love* to stress that *one*?

    Isn't that the way the system is designed? It's not like Judge Walker grabbed the case out of other judges hands and said, "I'm going to decide this one all by myself!"

    But see, we on this site are capable of reasoning things through. The people they are appealing to have made the choice to let others do their thinking for them. So it's easy to just throw a few catch phrases their way and get them to follow.

  • 98. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:24 am

    hehehehehehehe
    I always wonder that myself

  • 99. Linda  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:25 am

    Artificial…and redundant.

    'I have *always* been consistent' ….as opposed to what? "I *used* to be inconsistent but now I'm consistent?" or "I'm consistent sometimes?"

    stupid….

  • 100. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:30 am

    Carly Fiorina is playing the same games now that got her fired from HP/Compaq, and she left there under a HUGE cloud of malfeasance and impropriety. Too bad someone can't get that message out to the voters in California.

  • 101. Linda  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:30 am

    From what I can find, the 'above the influence' campaign is a federally funded program (and it has cost 1.5 billion to date, with questionable success, btw).

    I can't find who does the actual legwork; but I'm lousy at research.

    It's hard to dismiss the common logo though, isn't it?

  • 102. Linda  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:35 am

    This Engle guy is a bonafied nut case. He is angered that there are more Muslims martyrs than Christian, and so he is going out and recruiting young people who are willing to 'pray for the mark of the martyr'.

    And parents send their children to these rallies?
    "Here honey, go to this rally; learn how to be a martyr for Christ."

    This is considered admirable and Godly?

  • 103. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:42 am

    Good morning everyone.
    I'll check in later.
    Love you all!!

  • 104. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:42 am

    Sagesse, I want to thank you for posting this link. As many of you know, last Saturday, BZ and I went to Drag Bingo at the Durham Armory. Drag Bingo is a fund raiser for the Alliance of Aids Services-Carolina, and is a lot of fun. While there, I met a woman who is one of the facilitators for the Wake County GSA's, and this is the second time that someone on this site has posted a link that led me to materials we can use not only in Wake County, but also here in Cumberland County as I attend meetings in Wake County to find out the best ways to handle establishing GSA's here. Kathleen posted the link to Peter Yarrow's Operation Respect, and now, you Sagesse, have posted this link, which in the article has a video that shows a link that enabled me to contact Teaching Tolerance. I have subscribe to their email newsletter and also requested information on how to obtain any materials they have that can increase the protection and safety of ALL students in our schools. You guys and gals are just absolutely fabulous! And I hope that as we grow additional GSA's here in North Carolina, that we will see the forming of coalitions here in the spirit of the coalitions Harvey Milk built in the Castro in the 70's. Coalitions of gay, straight, Muslim, Jewish, Christian, agnostic, atheist, young, old, all shapes, sizes and colors of this beautiful rainbow we call humanity. It never fails. Just when I am beginning to get depressed and slowly sink into a blue funk, somebody in my P8TT family here will post something that stops that blue funk and lifts me back up and inspires me to action once more.
    So to all my P8TT family:

    STANDING O!!!!!

  • 105. Cat  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:43 am

    Indeed. Just one random guy who happens to be some judge in some court claiming there is this one 14th amendment that somehow protects this one group of gay people. It's just silly how that can trump the votes of millions of Californians who are all fine individuals with a sharp legal mind, well-versed in constitutional matters, who would never vote on any initiative that would be in violation of the constitution.

  • 106. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:48 am

    I know of only two things that can help with drug and alcohol addiction, and the only thing either of them costs is time. Open lines of communication among family members, and trust. Both of these are byproducts of unconditional love.

  • 107. Cat  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:49 am

    Linda, as for the last part of you comment: that's the scary part. The Prop.8 media fight has shown how hard it is to fight nonsense that appeals to the fearful and uninformed.

  • 108. Linda  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:51 am

    Speaking of GSAs–
    My daughters have been members of their school GSAs since before I came out. It just made sense to them to be a part of a group that encourages acceptance of all people.

    You know what pleases me? If any of my children are LGBT, they will never have to endure the trauma of coming out.

    That feels good.

  • 109. Kate  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:53 am

    I guess I'm thinking of potential impact if both cases end up before SCOTUS.

  • 110. Sagesse  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:56 am

    Richard, I was thinking of you when I posted the link… as well as the others who have engaged this topic :).

    In return, you need to educate this straight, lapsed Catholic child of the 60's:

    When I think of Bingo, I conjure up a certain image. What in blazes is Drag Bingo, and is there a dress code?

  • 111. Kate  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:56 am

    I, too. And I'm not even a guy.

  • 112. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:57 am

    And the fact that there will not be any trauma (or drama, either) for your children if they are LGBT shows that you have those open lines of communication and that trust which comes as a byproduct of unconditional love. And I have noticed that the parents on this site, and the grandparents, have said the same thing in different ways. Gee, maybe I should go buy a few Powerball tickets this afternoon and use part of the money to charter a few planes and gather the whole P8TT family at Kate's ranch near Mt. Shasta for a HUGE party and all the weddings we can arrange! Now that's the way to have a family reunion, isn't it!

  • 113. Linda  |  September 4, 2010 at 2:03 am

    @Cat–
    Absolutely! And don't think for a minute that these power-hungry 'ministers' don't know that!

    These 'Calls' are very strategically timed. The motivation is to get enough people riled up into a frenzy so that they will go out and work like crazy to fulfill their new 'calling'.

    The technic is not much different that what a coach does with his team right before a game. Get them focused, get their adrenaline pumping, and then send them out.

    Let's be honest, (and I admit I'm speaking as a former Christian) the Christian life is just not all that exciting. It's peaceful, actually; passive. And with all the restrictions so many churches have put in place, there's not a whole lot of pleasure to be found in the day in, day out, living of it. These types of Christians are starved for any kind of emotional release! They need something that they are allowed to feel passionately about.

    Engle is providing them with a God-sanctioned way to have that passion.

  • 114. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 4, 2010 at 2:06 am

    Drag Bingo is a bingo night that occurs every other month in Durham, and the ones who verify the bingos are all local drag queens. They are known as the Bingo Verifying Divas, or BVD's (yes, folks you ARE allowed to laugh!) In the Armory when it's bingo night, there are various supportive groups and individuals who have tables set up for sharing information. There is one table where folks can be tested, there is the local PFLAG chapter, a lawyer who specializes in the legal work for LGBTQQI families, and even a local restaurant that donates food for AAC-S to sell. The money goes to help HIV/AIDS patients with things like utility bills, copays on medical appointments and prescriptions, non-prescription medical needs that may not be covered through other plans, groceries (yes, they even have a food bank), transportation to and from medical appointments and other needed trips, and whatever else may be needed to help someone maintain his or her health.
    The dress code for Drag Bingo can be summed up in one short sentence (unless you are one of the performers), and that is Dress Comfortably. It is a fun night for families, and yes, people do bring their children. When we go back in October, I have already let BZ know that we will be leaving here early enough that we can grab a snack on the way, so that we can get a table on the floor where I can get better pictures. And I will post them on the blog for everyone to see.

  • 115. Phillip R  |  September 4, 2010 at 2:21 am

    I did some hunting myself but couldn't find any sort of connection with the group. Just freaked me out a little bit since I know the Above the Influence group is a federal program and don't like the possible linkage. So, I hope it's just a coincidence.

  • 116. Sagesse  |  September 4, 2010 at 2:22 am

    @Richard

    "Drag Bingo is a bingo night that occurs every other month in Durham, and the ones who verify the bingos are all local drag queens."

    Sorry, I just had to ask :). Thank you for my continuing cultural education.

  • 117. Kate  |  September 4, 2010 at 2:23 am

    And this wonderment happens regulary? I am so jealous. If I were anywhere near NC, I'd attend. What fun!

    Yes — I believe it was you, Richard, who was supposed to buy the winning lottery ticket for that get-together at my ranch.

  • 118. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 4, 2010 at 2:27 am

    @ Sagesse: No need to apologize. If you had a question about Drag Bingo, there are probably others who had the same question. And I wish I had a way other than just pictures to take everyone here to the next Drag Bingo in October. Of course, if I did that, they would have to move it to the Durham Bulls Arena. After all, there are about five times as many people here on P8TT than what the Armory will hold.

  • 119. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 4, 2010 at 2:29 am

    @ Kate: The way my lick goes with lottery tickets, I would probably reach the goal quicker by organizing a variation on Drag Bingo. They raised almost $10,000 last Saturday.

  • 120. Linda  |  September 4, 2010 at 2:33 am

    You know, I grew up being told that children were inherently evil–you know, that whole 'born into sin' thing. They would point to the way a baby cries when it needs something as an example of the child's self-centeredness! Consequently, it was the job of good, Christian parents to work against that innate sinfulness by restricting their natural actions and thought processes.

    I don't buy it! My children are not evil or sinful. And I have found that by allowing and encouraging them to actually think things through they have developed their own views on things; and their views are the result of reasoning, not indoctrinating. And, since they have been allowed to think freely, they do not feel threatened by opinions that differ from their own. They are willing to consider other points of view. Reason is not feared, but embraced.

    As a side note, I have not had to restrict internet access, or put locks on the windows, or padlocks on their bedroom doors. I don't have to put a gps tracker on their cell phones; none of that. My children are honest and trustworthy.

  • 121. Linda  |  September 4, 2010 at 2:40 am

    @Kate–

    I don't really know anything about courts; but it's my understanding that since the Texas thing was a state issue, and not a federal issue, it won't end up in SCOTUS.

  • 122. Kathleen  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:02 am

    Good morning, Bolt. (imo there are times that f-u is the only reasonable response. :) )

  • 123. Jim  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:12 am

    Off topic, but just for fun.. this is from NOM's site.

    <cite>"Thank-you. Once New Hampshire voters learned that Bill Binnie opposes SSM, his campaign sank like a stone, despite his big bucks. RealClearPolitics is reporting that Binnie has slipped to 3rd in the race for the GOP Senate nomination."</cite>

    They are celebrating that a candidate they oppose has dropped in the polls. But they can't even remember which side they are on. Opposes, supports, same difference. It is all very confusing, I know. Poor NOMers.

  • 124. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:12 am

    You are so right, Kathleen. That it why "Bless their hearts" is getting such a workout in our house lately!

  • 125. Kate  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:13 am

    bJASON: Would you be willing to write about your experiences in the cult? It would be very helpful to those of us here. I know that I would be very grateful if you did. How does a person indoctrinated that way ever see their way out of it to the light?

    Kate

  • 126. Jim  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:14 am

    Here is a link and a screenshot in case they change it in the meantime. We know how they love rewriting history.
    http://nomblog.com/1842/comment-page-1/#comment-2
    http://awesomescreenshot.com/041zzw24

  • 127. Kate  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:15 am

    Let's hope that happens to Meg in Calif…..

  • 128. PamC  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:15 am

    lol…that's even easier than using graveyards for petition signing names…

  • 129. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:15 am

    Well, Jim, I guess the effects of all their spinning are finally beginning to catch up with them, and they are losing what little bit of mind they every had, and the confusion is only to be expected. They are finally losing their extremely thin (one might even say microscopic) veneer of civility and rationality, and their true colors are shining ever more clearly with each passing picosecond.

  • 130. JPM  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:17 am

    Essay on Fiorina's statement made in the debate.

    "My position is consistent with that of the President's."
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/9/2/898563/-Fi….

  • 131. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:23 am

    And Carly! Either that, or I hope folks get reminded of the dishonesty both of them exhibited in the business world–Carly when she was with HP/Compaq, and meg with ebay and Paypal!

  • 132. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:25 am

    Good morning, Pam! How are things going now that school has started back?

  • 133. PamC  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:27 am

    @Linda–that's awesome & heartwarming…think you should write that "enlightened parenting" prescription for all potential procreators..!!

  • 134. Kathleen  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:31 am

    The arrow w/in a circle logo to the left of the text "TheCall" was filed as a trademark with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office by "The Call (a California Corporation)" 3535 E. Red Bridge Road, Kansas City, MISSOURI 64137 in Oct, 2009, claiming first use May, 2008.

    I couldn't find a current trademark for the US Gov's "Above the Influence." There is a dead mark filed in 2005 by the Office of National Drug Control Policy (Federal Agency) and abandoned in Oct 2007. But it is just for the text "Above the Influence" – nothing with this arrow in a circle.

    But back the The Call. Whenever you file for a trademark, you have to list the nature of the goods and services of your company/organization. They list "G & S: Arranging and conducting spiritual revivals and prayer gatherings to pray and fast for breakthrough and revival."

    Other marks with this arrow and circle filed by the same organization are

    1. One with the words "TheCall Crisis", filed Oct 2009 (no date of first use indicated). "G & S: Arranging, mobilizing and conducting spiritual revivals and prayer gatherings in times of disaster to pray and fast for breakthrough and revival"

    2. One with the words "TheCall to Conscience" also filed Oct 2009, with no first use date. It has three different descriptions of goods and service.

    "G & S: Promoting public awareness of moral issues and biblical absolutes affecting the world through print media, radio, video, television, satellite, cable, blogs, social networking media and the Internet; public advocacy to promote awareness of moral issues and biblical absolutes affecting the world; arranging and conducting grassroots campaigns to raise awareness of moral issues and biblical absolutes affecting the world; Providing information regarding political issues, knowing how to vote and knowing how to register to vote their conscience and consistently with biblical absolutes and the teachings of Jesus Christ

    G & S: Providing e-mail and text message notification alerts of decisions made by legislators that compromise biblical law

    G & S: Educational services, namely, arranging and conducting lectures, forums and debates in the field of moral issues and biblical absolutes affecting the world and distribution of educational materials in connection therewith"

  • 135. Carpool Cookie  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:38 am

    Oooohhhhh!

    My favorite stretch of that is the melodic break into, "The roof, the house and your mother at the door / The roof, the house and the world you never thought to explore…"

    Am very fond of that score!

  • 136. Carpool Cookie  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:43 am

    You need to pull an intervention on your sister, Lora!

    (Love your name, BTW. I also like the name Lorna, which I'm sure is how a bunch of people misspell it, so I don't expect you to have a happy association.)

  • 137. Sagesse  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:43 am

    @Linda

    Like you, I'm a terrible parent. When I look at children, I don't see 'human puppies' to be trained and disciplined, I see 'little people', with thoughts and needs and wants that are just as important as mine, the grown-up. Sure, they need to have some restrictions, for their own safety… no you can't run out into the road.

    And that means they get their turn to pick what we're going to do today, or what we're going to watch on TV… fortunately, his choice was Star Trek TNG, and all its subsequent incarnations.

  • 138. Carpool Cookie  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:48 am

    I like in the documentary For the Bible Tells Me So when the priest says, "There's nothing wrong with a 5th grade understanding of the Bible…as long as you're in 5th grade."

  • 139. Carpool Cookie  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:54 am

    Not all Christians do damage. My mom's a born again prison minister (our very own Mrs Soffel) and she's always urging her fellow followers to not sign discrimanatory petitions, etc.

    We need to encourage the rational-minded Christians out there. They've earned it.

  • 140. Don in Texas  |  September 4, 2010 at 4:08 am

    One hopes this faulty state appeals court decision will be overturned on appeal.

  • 141. Don in Texas  |  September 4, 2010 at 4:21 am

    The opinion of the Texas 5th Circuit Court of Appeals is here.

    Judge Walker persuasively addresses this issue on page 127 of his opinion:

    Proponents argue Proposition 8:
    (1) promotes “stability and responsibility in naturally procreative
    relationships”; (2) promotes “enduring and stable family structures
    for the responsible raising and care of children by their
    biological parents”; (3) increases “the probability that natural
    procreation will occur within stable, enduring, and supporting
    family structures”; (4) promotes “the natural and mutually
    beneficial bond between parents and their biological children”;
    (5) increases “the probability that each child will be raised by
    both of his or her biological parents”; (6) increases “the
    probability that each child will be raised by both a father and a
    mother”; and (7) increases “the probability that each child will
    have a legally recognized father and mother.” Doc #605 at 13-14.
    The evidence supports two points which together show
    Proposition 8 does not advance any of the identified interests: (1)
    same-sex parents and opposite-sex parents are of equal quality, FF
    69-73, and (2) Proposition 8 does not make it more likely that
    opposite-sex couples will marry and raise offspring biologically
    related to both parents, FF 43, 46, 51.
    The evidence does not support a finding that California
    has an interest in preferring opposite-sex parents over same-sex
    parents. Indeed, the evidence shows beyond any doubt that parents’
    genders are irrelevant to children’s developmental outcomes. FF
    70. Moreover, Proposition 8 has nothing to do with children, as
    Proposition 8 simply prevents same-sex couples from marrying.

  • 142. Lora  |  September 4, 2010 at 4:25 am

    BK…the problem with my sister is that she went back into the closet since moving to Texas, not that she was out that much here in Cali anyway. People think that her partner is her sister, and they just let them.
    When I was there in May for the Komen walk, people asked me who the oldest sister was and since there's only the 2 of us, I said that she was the older…they got this wierd look on their face and said, "but what about Darlene?"
    Can you say awkward??

  • 143. Lora  |  September 4, 2010 at 4:27 am

    …and CC, thanks for the compliment. :) I like it too! Nothing typical about me, not even my name!

    I don't think anyone's ever misspelled it as Lorna…it's usually Laura and a few Lori's in there.

  • 144. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 4, 2010 at 4:30 am

    And you, Lora, are so very typical of every Lora, Laura, Lori, and Lorna I have ever met–kind, loving, strong, and just such a joy to be around. You are definitely in the right place here in the P8Tt family!

  • 145. Linda  |  September 4, 2010 at 4:36 am

    'Laura' is my older daughter's name. :)

  • 146. Linda  |  September 4, 2010 at 4:37 am

    @Bolt–
    I hope you know I was being facetious in my comment re: the hetero judges. No hate intended. :)

  • 147. Sagesse  |  September 4, 2010 at 4:44 am

    @Kathleen

    "Biblical absolutes."

    Has a ring of certainty to it, no?

  • 148. Sagesse  |  September 4, 2010 at 6:47 am

    The man is revolting… and not in the way he thinks. Pity the poor Ugandans. The US is so much better able to defend itself.

    Fervently hoping the turnout for the Sacramento event is a sign that this kind of thinking is waning. Ugh.

  • 149. Sagesse  |  September 4, 2010 at 6:55 am

    Not that this line of debate isn't important… but it shouldn't be.

    Marriage is a state matter. If marriage equality comes at the federal level, it will be through the Supreme Court. DOMA is the federal marriage law, and Obama has said he wants it repealed.

    For practical purposes, who cares, at this moment, what Obama's opinion is, or that of some wannabe Senator from California… there is no federal VOTE that is going to create or deny marriage equality.

  • 150. TheCall, Day 1: The conce&hellip  |  September 4, 2010 at 10:14 am

    [...] on the ground for Day 2 of TheCall Sacramento. Late last night, Arisha filed the report below about Day 1 of TheCall — a Christian music concert at Raley Field that did not include speakers. Today, from 9 a.m. [...]

  • 151. TheCall, Day 2: “Ma&hellip  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:19 pm

    [...] two figures, we have to estimate TheCall’s much larger crowd. Compared to last night’s Raley Field event on Day 1, which we estimated at 10,000, my estimate of today’s attendance is about [...]

  • 152. Lora  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    Awww, thank you Richard! You're a sweetheart! I feel a part of the family here at P8TT. What a great community we have here. While I don't post a lot, I check this site many times throughout the day.

    I appreciate so much the work of those that have traveled around following the NOM tour and gone to 'the Call' and reported back for those of us who couldn't stomach going there. Also, all of the regular posters who've added so much and taught me too..and all those, like me, regular lurkers and sometime posters. Everyone is an important part. Love you all. <3

  • 153. AndrewPDX  |  September 5, 2010 at 4:03 am

    @Linda… <cite>‘I have *always* been consistent’</cite>

    Anybody else remember on Are You Being Served? how Mrs. Slocumbe would often say "And I am unanimous in that!"

    Or am I just showing my age and love of British comedies?

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
    Andrew

  • 154. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 5, 2010 at 7:47 am

    @ AndrewPDX: You mean I am not the only one on here who loved seeing all the different colors of Mrs. Slocumb's hair? And the double entendres! OMG. I am so glad that the whole series is not available on DVD!

  • 155. Carpool Cookie  |  September 5, 2010 at 12:21 pm

    Even the "Laurette" I knew was nice….and Laurette Taylor is pretty much considered America's finest actress of the 20th Century. See the doc. "The Golden Age of Broadway" (?)

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