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“TheCall”: Religious extremists rally tonight against Prop 8 decision — and Courage will be there

NOM Exposed Right-wing TheCall

By Eden James

Tonight and tomorrow, thousands of religious extremists will gather in Sacramento for “The Call” — an event organized by Lou Engle’s organization and promoted by right-wingers like former Arkansas Governor and presidential candidate Mike Huckabee and Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council.

If this must-watch promotional video is any indication, it will probably be like the NOM Summer Tour on steroids — and Arisha Hatch and staffers from the Courage Campaign Institute will be there to document it all:

Yes,

For Americans concerned about the separation of church and state, this leading presidential contender’s words are harrowing.

Huckabee’s support for Engle comes just a few months after Huckabee compared same-sex marriage to incest, drug abuse and polygamy, going on to say that gay and lesbian couples should not be allowed to parent, because kids “aren’t puppies.”

We can’t let Huckabee and Engle get away with their attacks on LGBT families or Judge Walker’s Prop 8 decision. That’s why Courage staffers are going to “The Call” tonight to expose Engle’s extremism for the world to see on on the Prop 8 Trial Tracker. Will you make a contribution right now to help us fight back and defend Judge Walker’s decision? Just click here to help us cover our costs, including staff time, travel expenses and video production.

In a few hours, we’ll have an update for you from Arisha and crew, as they get on the road to Sacramento.

135 Comments Leave a Comment

  • 1. Ann S.  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:47 am

    Heeding the call!

    (for more email)

  • 2. Kathleen  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:50 am

    And me.

  • 3. AndrewPDX  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:53 am

    Is it just me, or does the still for the 1st video look like a bunch of people going 'Hail Hitler'?


    NO MORE LIES
    NO MORE HATE
    GIVE US SEPARATION
    OF CHURCH AND STATE

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
    Andrew

  • 4. Richard W. Fitch  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:54 am

    Hmm…. Maybe Lou Engle as the Huckster's pres running mate…….

  • 5. Ronnie  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:54 am

    yup…. : / …..Ronnie

  • 6. JC (1 of the 18,000  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:00 am

    Donated again. Thank you for your work and, of course, your courage to go be among this insanity.

  • 7. The Reverend Canon S  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:03 am

    Keep exposing the hate… and know that this important work is supported by thousands of LGBT supportive clergy and faith leaders across the state of California! Look for California Faith for Equality spokespeople who will be countering Engle's distortions of Christian values and instead proclaiming the Good News of love, justice and compassion!

    The Reverend Susan Russell
    All Saints Church, Pasadena

  • 8. JC (1 of the 18,000  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:06 am

    Yes, siree-bob, that was my first thought. Looks much more like it than an Obama rally, that's for darn sure. What I don't get is how this kind of thing isn't instantly branded cultish brainwashing. Scary, scary, scary.

  • 9. Ken Pierce  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:07 am

    Please contact me – I am an activist here in Sacramento and would like to attend with the Courage crew. I am planning to protest Saturday at the State Capitol – is Courage planning to be there also?

    kpierce8272@yahoo.com

  • 10. Bob  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:09 am

    this is what you call power in numbers, seen it before, very transforming, for the ignorant, what is a suprize is that there wasn't much build up to this event, first time I heard of it, and it happns in a few days, like tomorrow I thnk, this will be bring together the mass of peoople that NOM couldn't, is NOM part of this ?

  • 11. AndrewPDX  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:12 am

    Thank you Reverend!
    It really means a lot to me that you and other theologians are true followers of Christ (and leaders of other religions too) and are standing up against Engle's hate.
    FotF and NOM and Huckabee and all these have poisoned the term 'Christian' so much that I have stopped calling true followers by that now-dirty word.

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
    Andrew

  • 12. Sagesse  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:14 am

    E-mail, please.

  • 13. Bob  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:14 am

    @Reverend Russell, are you saying that you will be participating at the same place in the form of a counter rally?

  • 14. Anonygrl  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:22 am

    I am at work now, and if I have to go throw up because of this… HATRED…

    OK. I have written this post three times now, and deleted it three times because it was just a rant.

    Thank you Courage Campaign, for wading into the acid bath again for us and bringing us the info we need to combat this evil sewage and the bile they spew. I will make a donation as soon as I get home.

  • 15. ceevee  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:36 am

    They've all had a bit too much Kool-Aid (2:30 in the promo video).

    With the supposed 400,000 people in attendance, statistically, there will be between 12,000-40,000 gay people in attendance. It looks like a young crowd…how many of those teens/young adults are going to resort to drugs, alcohol, or suicide because of the messages of this cult gathering?

    I just LOVE the self-righteous banter about gays raising children. If they would focus their ill-directed time, money, and energy on helping the children of the world -in meaningful and practical ways-then I might have half an ounce of respect for them.

    How do we get people away from their computers and out into the street? This slander cannot continue. We need more than a once-every-five-year March on Washington. We need our own kind of Tea Party moment…of sorts.

  • 16. michele  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:39 am

    I've taken from this site for too long without giving back. My contribution is small but it comes with lots of prayers. That's right–I am gay and I am a christian–and this "call" is a slap in the face to the sincerity of my faith and the faith of my fiancee. How dare they…how dare they..

    Go get 'em courage campaign!

  • 17. Steven  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:43 am

    full of bigots!! Sorry guys!! defintion of "traditional marriage" have many meaning!!!!!!!! like wife is property of the husband, wife has no right to pick her husband and etc…………

  • 18. Bolt  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:47 am

    It doesn't matter if there is a million religious zealots gathering. They're all powerless, and I would like to greet them with a big "Fuck You."

    Fuck You, religious zealots. Get a life.

  • 19. AndrewPDX  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:04 am

    Welcome to the party, and thanks for the prayers!
    Please, whenever those here attack 'christians' as a generic group, remember they're attacking these Engle-Huckabee types who are as far from Christ-like as you can get. I hope you'll pipe up here and there to remind us of this fact whenever they get a bit too rambunctious.

    Congratz on your engagement! I can't wait until I meet my Mr. Right to be able to say 'my fiance' too.

    Can I get you a cookie? You already have some MILK, I see :)

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
    Andrew

  • 20. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:04 am

    I am just sick to my stomach over this. How can these people continue to be so hateful, and do so in the name of Jesus Christ…a man who taught and commanded we LOVE one another.
    How can politicians like Huckabee not see that attempting to make this country a Theocracy makes us no better than the Muslim extremist we as a nation are at war with?
    I need some pepto….I'm feeling sick

  • 21. Suzanne (not for muc  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:11 am

    Thank you for speaking up, michele. Courage and love to you.

  • 22. Jay E  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:14 am

    I honestly think Lou Engle is deeply disturbed. He always rocks back and forth like an Elephants do just before they kill their trainer.

  • 23. Ed  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:15 am

    Ok, I just watched the first video, and all I can say is that, I simply must call into work this weekend so i can go…..

    Oh wait, nevermind…..I just realized I have laundry to do, porn to watch, eat lobster, and whatever else I'm not supposed to do, according to the bible….

    p.s., bible paper makes the perfect "wrapping" paper……

    Ed

  • 24. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:23 am

    Andrew have I told you yet today how much I love you?
    You are amazing!

  • 25. michele  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:26 am

    thanks andrew!
    I must admit, I read this site pretty obsessively and I always enjoy your comments..

    Thanks for the cookie and here is another right back at ya.

    My fiancee and I have such different stories that clearly illustrate the effects of religion. I was raised in a pro christian household in small town USA–fire and brimstone. I struggled and it took me years to reconcile my faith and the fact that I am gay. Kate, on the other hand, was not raised in a overtly christian environment but had mostly come to terms with her sexuality in her teens. For her, it never occurred to her that she "should" doubt God's love for her as a lesbian woman. Being a lesbian was no different than the fact that she is right handed, and just as arbitray to think that God wouldn't approve of her right handedness. I always love her story–it shows what true christ-like love and acceptance and innocence looks like.

  • 26. Trish  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:26 am

    Oh dear. I can't even bring myself to watch the video today.

  • 27. Bob  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:27 am

    @ceevee, sadly, for many of those young LGBT attendees, it will be there first intro , into being accepted, and in the jubilation of the momnt, and frenzied excitement, they will drink the cool-aid, find god, and feel liberated in the moment, it's after the party when they are alone that reality will set in.

    What would be nice is a big gay rainbow tent, at the rally, as an alternative, where people can hear and feel real accepance and love. One they don't have to give up anything for,

    True love is experienced first, then change happens, (we accept ourselves) that is love

    What is taught at these rallies is if you stop practising your sin, god will love you, that is wrong, simply not true, but all the sam a very powerful experience.

  • 28. Fred  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:28 am

    I am speechless , Do this people know that there is an undeniable separation between church and state. Regardless of a person’s person beliefs regarding a particular issue, separation has to be maintained. If they believed same sex marriage is immoral, they have the right to it, but laws are not made to enforce morality; they are created for the protection of citizens. They are not created to enforce a particular church’s beliefs; they are created on behalf of the state to both defend rights and guard the population. Therefore, even if someone was convinced that homosexuality was wrong, they would have no right to impose that belief on the entire nation.

  • 29. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:32 am

    What is truly so very shocking to me is that these same people who are so adamant about codifying their personal religious and moral code into the US Constitution and the laws are the very same people who had to be so vociferously reassured about the separation of church and state when John Fitzgerald Kennedy was running for, and elected, POTUS! Too bad that you can't convince them of that.

  • 30. Ronnie  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:35 am

    And now a video from Hawthorne High School (Hawthorne, NJ) Alumni, Blondie……..GO BEARS!!!!!

    CALL ME!!!!….lol…..<3…Ronnie:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUg8c4xJj2U

  • 31. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:38 am

    I just posted under the video "Isn't it kind of exploitative to use footage of mentally ill, delusional people in advertising like this?"

  • 32. Bob  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:41 am

    This here is a rally for theocracy, right out there for everyone to see, hear and attend, these people are serious, they want to own and run America, forget the LGBT issue, that's their smoke and mirrors, that's what they are using to provoke fear,
    We need to mke this more about what it really is, HOLY WAR, right here in the land of the free, now is the time to get the middle ground motivated, forget gay or straight, that's a diversion, the battle crie needs to be SEPARATE CHURCH AND STATE, somehow these people got out of there tents, and are bringing their pulpits into the public square, the government sleeps, or looks the other way, the people must step in. ENOUGH ALREADY

  • 33. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:44 am

    Wow, I didn't know Debbie Harry went through a vintage couture phase! She looks White House-ready : )

  • 34. Anonygrl  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:53 am

    If I had a LOT of money, I would go and pass out copies of A Handmaid's Tale to everyone there. If even just a quarter of them read it (and the title is one that should SOUND good to them) maybe it might start some of them thinking?

    Ah well.

  • 35. R.A.  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:54 am

    What is it with the state of Kansas? This is the headquarters of Lou Engle's Ministry of Hate. It's also the home of Topeka's "Rev." Fred Phelps. Is there something in the water?
    I think it's safe to assume that both these men are gay. As I've posted before, anyone that displays this kind of vociferous hatred of "the gay" as it were, has got to be hiding something. I wish MIke Rogers over at Blogactive.com would do some digging into this creep Engle's background. I'm absolutely positive the guy likes to fuck men. It's so obvious.

  • 36. Bob  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:56 am

    Rant!!!!!!!!! I just got to say, I think CC has been a little self centred in there posting of this story, saying we can't let thisgo unoticed, CC will be there to bring you coverage live to this site, just send money, so we can all read about it here.

    What about a call to action, our own CALL to answer the one being made against us. What about inciting the people here to rise up, and get to the rally, somehow it just sounds like it's only again about the money, just send money, cc will do the work for us.

    Please Courage Campaign inform your readers of the importance of taking whatever action they can to respond in the flesh, and be there in person, rise up, be present, offer alternative messages, take action. be visible.

  • 37. ceevee  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:57 am

    My partner is a 44-year-old who was raised as an extreme fundamentalist Baptist. She was sent off to Bob Jones University -kicking and screaming- at the age of 13 and unfortunately stayed there through college. It took her YEARS of trying to fit into the straigh mold and then years more of soul searching to actually come out. I'm happy she came out when she did…better late than never…but she did miss out on a lot because of her overly-zealous parents.

    As for the rainbow tent at the rally…I love it! Maybe a air-drop of little rainbow parachutes with something fun attached like a note that says: "Don't drink the kool-aid" and "you are great, just the way you are!" Maybe some covert LGBT Don't Ask, Don't Tell renegades could arrange for this air-drop!!

  • 38. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 4:58 am

    Eh…..you can go. I don't want to be around that crowd.

  • 39. R.A.  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:02 am

    Whoaa, you're right about that Anongrl! Just saw the movie version a couple of nights ago. Although not as good as the book, the scene where the mass executions take place with the huge crowds was pretty effective…and frightening. I suspect that a crowd like the The Call's could be whipped up into a frenzy to do anything. Engle is truly evil, just as Huckabee is. Christ, I'm so sick of Christianity.

  • 40. Bob  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:05 am

    you're going , but you never invited your readers, (followers) to join you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    WHY???????????????

    we could face this discrimination together head on, not pay to watch it on video.

  • 41. Johan de Vries  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:06 am

    What I am wondering… Do people like Huckabee (re: puppy remarks) honestly know how incredibly hurtful they are, or are they so blinded by their beliefs that the gay community is actually "de-humanized" in their mind?

  • 42. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:06 am

    Now I really feel old! I was still in high school when that first came out! Of course, I also remember dancing to "Heart of Glass" from the album Parallel Lines. And Debby Harry was always White House ready.

  • 43. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:07 am

    PS: Just contributed, via link.

    Than god there's people out there, like the Courage Campaign, willing to attend and document these events.

  • 44. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:11 am

    I just realized the ("faithful") attendees are called upon to fast while they're there.

    Is anyone else thinking Free Cookie Stand???

  • 45. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:12 am

    @ R. A. I am quite sure that Rabbi Yoshua ben Yosef of Nazareth is also quite sick of those who have twisted and perverted his teachings to justify oppression and discrimination.

  • 46. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:12 am

    Or that he likes being on the receiving end of it.

  • 47. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:28 am

    Pink frosted sugar cookies with the word LOVE in rainbow sprinkles

  • 48. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:30 am

    Margaret Atwood is one of our FINEST contemporary writers. That book is a masterpiece. (A lot of critics think Surfacing, which I haven't read, is her strongest work.)

    There's a 3 part discussion with her on youtube about humans' seeming need for religion, writing and poetry. (The sound seems screwed up on Part 1, but 2 and 3 seem okay.)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmVD7XcRb6Y

  • 49. Ann S.  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:37 am

    Carpool Cookie, I love Margaret Atwood, too. My favorite so far is Oryx and Crake, but I have just requested Surfacing from the local library. Thanks for the recommendation. I'll watch the video later, too.

  • 50. fiona64  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:37 am

    I am honestly, as pathetic as this sounds, too damned tired to drive for three hours (or more, since it's "getaway day") to try to fight hate-filled zealots. I won't change their minds, and I'll just be upset by the whole experience.

    I hate how beaten down by this stuff I feel at times. I've said it before: as a straight ally, I find it exhausting. I don't know how my GLBT friends/family of choice do it day in and day out. In other words, every damn time you leave the house, you know there's a chance you'll have to deal with hate being flung at you. I am just not that brave sometimes. :-(

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 51. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:38 am

    Calm yourself Bob….they didn't send an invite because it's a given that if you want to attend you may.
    Are you going to go?

  • 52. Ann S.  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:38 am

    Fiona, I'm with you. It turns out I actually have to work this weekend, but still — I admit, I don't want to be around that crowd.

  • 53. Ronnie  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:42 am

    & now for us youngn's …This is "The New Call" …. ; )
    <3…Ronnie:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sghewWSwuZE

  • 54. Ronnie  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:44 am

    P.S…..This is soooooo my theme song..<3..Ronnie

  • 55. Cynthia  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:53 am

    Wow. I like the guitars behind Huckabee. That is irrefutable PROOF that he is hip to the younger generation. Or something.

  • 56. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:54 am

    So does that mean they will be made with colored white chocolate?

  • 57. DK  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:55 am

    Andrew, I LOVE that!!!
    Does anyone know if "got MILK" is available as a bumper sticker? Or are there messy copyright issues to that?
    DK

  • 58. Ann S.  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:57 am

    Hmm, well there are the ones from the ad campaign, and it can be a sooper seekrit code among us.
    http://store.gotmilk.com/

  • 59. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 5:57 am

    I have been re-reading The Handmaid's Tale, and I won't lie about it–this book seems so close to what is happening that it is truly scary!

  • 60. Ben  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:04 am

    One of my favourite days was when I ate a bacon cheeseburger during Passover. Broke about five dietary laws in one go. Then I did a little envying, etc. It was a good day.

  • 61. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:04 am

    I like Alias Grace a lot. On the other hand, I didn't respond so much to The Robber Bride.

  • 62. DK  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:06 am

    Thanks! Now I need one to put below the equality sign on my car. :)
    DK

  • 63. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:09 am

    I remember someone here saying that Huckabee has a past that included dreams of being a rock star or a folk singer. Guess he never made it, but also never gave up the dream.

  • 64. fiona64  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:12 am

    Yep, Richard … Huckabee had aspirations of being a Christian rock star.

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 65. fiona64  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:13 am

    PS: He's still in a band, called Capitol Offense. He is the bassist.

    Love,
    Fiona

  • 66. Bob  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:19 am

    Thanks Mark, for your forthrightness, (is that a word), I am worked into a lather about this. I'm always suprized that American citizens appear so apathetic about causing a riot in their own streets, while they go around the globe doing so in other countries. I keep forgetting the thing about the right in your country to incite hatred under the freedom of speach laws.

    of course I'm not going, I don't have a passport, so I will just shut up know, thanks again

  • 67. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:19 am

    This is to help us all take back the words "The [Gathering] Storm."

  • 68. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:19 am

    Well, that was helpful for everyone!

    Sorry.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxZ9_XlL19E

  • 69. Mark M. (Seattle)  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:22 am

    Love ya Bob!

  • 70. DK  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:23 am

    I went back to watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbWDNM0wuAc&fe

    And got to read the newer comments…some are absolutely heartbreaking, the kids who are hiding who they are from their parents.
    DK
    (a straight supporter)

  • 71. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:24 am

    Appropriate name for his band, considering that he is committing a capital offense on the Constitution!

  • 72. Matt  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:29 am

    I noticed the same thing about the fast and figured it must be easier to brainwash everyone when their blood sugars are low standing out in the heat all day. Its hard to think for yourself when you havnt eaten for days…. COOKIES!

  • 73. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:40 am

    Cults do this. Don't get me started!

    It's to bring on the euphoria and scramble thinking.

  • 74. Ken Pierce  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:41 am

    Here in Sacramento our Coalition of LGBT Organizations suggested we have no organized protests or presence. I want to thank the Courage Campaign for having the "courage" to drive out to Sacramento from San Francisco to cover the event for Prop 8 Trial Tracker.

    Although I am a member of a very active civil rights group I will be attending tonight and tomorrow on behalf of all who cannot or will not stand up and counter what will be said tonight and tomorrow from outsiders to the good people of Sacramento. A few of my friends will be attending also.

    I stand with Courage Campaign in solidarity and all who come to help right a wrong.

    Ken from Sac.

  • 75. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:41 am

    Thanks for your support ! ! ! We live in an exciting time, when everyone can work togather : )

  • 76. Dave P.  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:46 am

    I just went to Huckabee's web site and submitted the following comment:

    ——

    I am very concerned about your support of Lou Engle and his events. Some of his public statements are bordering on an incitement to violence against American citizens. He called for “martyrs” to become “God’s Avengers of Blood” and stop the “homosexual agenda” at any cost. This is alarming. And it would be wise of you to distance yourself from Mr. Engle and denounce his irresponsible and inflammatory comments before some crazy person acts on his hateful rhetoric and decides to harm someone.

    —-

    It couldn't hurt if a whole hell of a lot of other people sent him a similar message. Maybe he'll start to get the idea that people view this Engle guy as bad news and he should step away. Go to Huckabee's site and email him now!

  • 77. Mark  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:48 am

    Semi-related note:
    I went on the "Protect Marriage: One Man, One Woman" facebook page for some laughs/updates on what NOM is planning to do next and I saw a rather interesting status posted by the Admin of the group:

    …..I find it hilarious when the opposition and their supporters say, "He without sin cast the first stone." Read the rest, "Go and sin no more."……

    In the comments, inevitably, all the fans backed up the status praising how well thought it is and mocking how often supporters of marriage equality "twist the words of their sacred book to suit their purposes". They even accuse US of picking and choosing! HA!

    To me it is a blatant attempt to justify going directly against the word of Jesus. They see the "sin" of homsexuality as negating the order not to judge if you too are a sinner. In conclusion: by their logic, if homosexuals would promise to stop being gay, theyd stop judging them. I would love to see Rob or another seasoned pro-marriage equality blogger take a post and just tear down arguements being made on the facebook page, if that would be possible. (take screenshots and dismantle arguements one by one perhaps?) The hatred on that page is so rampant it's disgusting! Once again, NOM showing their true colors as an extremist homophobic, psuedo-regious group…. but what else is new?

  • 78. Brandon B  |  September 3, 2010 at 6:55 am

    Long-time lurker, first-time poster (I think)….

    I am leaving San Francisco for Sacramento within the next 10-15 minutes to show up and do what I can. If you’re organizing a counterprotest or are going yourself, I’d love to link up with you in SAC.

    Shoot me a message at bwb-p8tt@gibibyte.com if you’re down for joining forces, and I’ll send you more contact info.

    I’m planning to get there ASAP, then get posterboard from Office Depot if necessary.

    I want to make sure this event isn’t answered in some way or form! See y’all there!

    [I also posted this comment under the most current thread]

  • 79. DK  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:26 am

    I grew up post "civil rights era" and yet to me this is just as much a civil rights issue. Two of my grandparents were a mixed-race (Asian/White) couple and and it blows me away that some thought (or even still think) that because they were of different races their relationship was somehow "less than". So while I have not personally had to deal with the challenges that many of the posters here have had to deal with (and HUGS to you for your courage), I have seen first hand how hurtful discrimination can be. :(

  • 80. ron  |  September 3, 2010 at 7:55 am

    that first video was very disturbing.

  • 81. Apricot  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:09 am

    At first glance I would say there's absolutely nothing wrong with gathering a group of pumped up young folks for the sake of enjoying community, song, and religious common bond. In fact, my immediate thoughts hearken back to a nostalgic time in my youth where our church congregation youth ministry would attend a gathering called "Winterfest." Here we enjoyed live music, scripture studies, and memory collecting.

    That's why events like this saddens me most. First of all, for the sake of perspective, this is much more of a political rally than it is a religious one. It perpetuates the myth that conservative values and christian values are one in the same thing. Politicians seem to be exploiting the religious platform to push a political agenda.

    Even if I staunchly opposed marriage equality, I don't think I would bring my children to an event like this. There's just way too much negative militant confrontational energy judging from the ads alone, and I wouldn't want my kids to be raised on that kind of understanding of the gospel of Jesus Christ. My religion is about love. Not social political control.

    It gets worse when you think about how so much of that energy seems to be directed toward stigmatizing and vilifying a group of people as a divine biblical enemy responsible for a worldly apocalypse that should be smudged out of existence. These people are NOT servants of god. They're servants of something else.

  • 82. Jim  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:24 am

    Now Mike Huckabee is involved in this? That man is getting scarier and scarier.

  • 83. Zachary  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:40 am

    Hey, I recognize that guy (and his voice)! Lou Engle was the plastic-fetus-guy in "Jesus Camp".

  • 84. Jay E  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:42 am

    That's the guy! Jesus Camp was the scariest horror movie I've seen.

  • 85. Zachary  |  September 3, 2010 at 8:51 am

    Yeah, that one's definitely up there! I'd also suggest "Hell House", which is more of the same kind of crazy.

  • 86. Episcopal Bear  |  September 3, 2010 at 9:00 am

    Ummm, Anonygirl?

    Give those crazies a copy of A Handmaid’s Tale and they'll think it's a "How To" manual!

  • 87. Jen-Bunny  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:27 am

    Does anyone know where "The Call" is? I live about 40 miles east of Sacramento, and would love to meet up with the P8TT team!

  • 88. Kathleen  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:31 am

    Jen-Bunny, the website says today 6-11pm at Raley Field and tomorrow 9am-9pm in Capitol Mall http://www.thecall.com/Groups/1000057357/TheCall/

  • 89. Sheryl, Mormon Mothe  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:41 am

    Fiona, you just hit on one my fears for my son. Even though he lives in SF there are still those who are homophobic. I just wish people would accept people as they are and not feel that people who are different are inferior. While we are talking heterosexual vs. homosexual here, that superiority complex extends to other issues also. People are people and we need to accept them as they are not put tjhem down or think it is okay to cause harm to them because they are different.

    I only watched the first video, tried to watch the second but just don't have the stomach for it right now. Crowd psychology at work. So easy to get everyone worked into a frenzy over things when in a large group and yet I bet if these people were in small groups having a discussion, they would be appalled at what is being presented.

    Sheryl, Mormon Mother

  • 90. Sheryl, Mormon Mothe  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:50 am

    Hmm, can't make it tonight but just might cut my meeting short tomorrow and drive on up. You all going to be carrying signs? Any ideas for a last minute one?

    Sheryl, Mormon Mother

  • 91. Linda  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:02 am

    Now *that* is good news!!! I am convinced that the only way these cultish activities can be adequately countered is by people of faith who are still capable of *reason*!

  • 92. Linda  |  September 3, 2010 at 11:05 am

    I'm wondering if there was build up via churches….

    Who's interested in a bet? I wager that this event has been heavily promoted to church congregations.

  • 93. “The Call”: O&hellip  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:44 pm

    [...] 3, 2010 (Arisha and crew are on the road to Sacramento to cover “The Call,” which we told you about this morning. Before leaving today, she wrote the following. — [...]

  • 94. Lora  |  September 3, 2010 at 1:46 pm

    This is also the first time I've heard of it and I live in Sacramento! I'm only a few blocks form the capitol and haven't seen or heard anything about it. Weird.

  • 95. Carpool Cookie  |  September 3, 2010 at 2:48 pm

    JESUS CAMP ! ! ! ! !

    Where are those kids now ? ? They need to do a follow-up.

    My favorite was the big butch woman who ran the weekends….completely clueless about what's going on in her own life.

  • 96. Lora  |  September 3, 2010 at 3:04 pm

    I just watched the Huckabee video. That's just scarey!

  • 97. BK  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:29 pm

    Awesome, michele! The only sad part is that we have to reiterate that we are gay *and* still followers of Christ. Focus on the Family et al need to stop using terms like "the biblical view of sexuality" and "God's design for marriage" — it's misleading. No one group can truthfully say that their view is *the* view.

    PS: I'm a gay follower of Christ, too. :) I prefer not to say Christian; as said before, that word has been turned "dirty" by FotF et al.

    PPS: Congrats on the engagement!

  • 98. BK  |  September 3, 2010 at 10:34 pm

    Please don't cuss at people. We must treat everyone with respect, no matter their views and actions. To do otherwise won't help us win hearts and minds to our side.

  • 99. Josiah  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:28 am

    Amen, sister!

  • 100. Josiah  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:30 am

    Ceevee, I suggest a slight variant on your proposed slogan: "God loves you just the way you are."

  • 101. Josiah  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:32 am

    Amen, michele and BK. What will it take for these people to realize that their interpretation of God's will is not the only one?

  • 102. AndrewPDX  |  September 4, 2010 at 12:57 am

    @Josiah… <cite>What will it take for these people to realize that their interpretation of God’s will is not the only one?</cite>

    Yeah, I've tried that one before, and they always go on about how they are the true Christians and that everybody else is a 'fake christian', as if they somehow have gained insider trading information or something.

    If we take it as read that God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, then isn't it a bit presumptuous for a 'mere mortal' to claim to know the mind of God?

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
    Andrew

  • 103. Josiah  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:03 am

    @AndrewPDX, I've always thought so. "Act justly, show mercy, walk humbly with your God." I don't see these folks doing any of these things.

  • 104. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:12 am

    @ AndrewPDX: It is more than just mere presumption. What these folks are promulgating borders on blasphemy. In all of my reading, once I managed to break free of the thought control so often used, has led me to believe that HaShem is love. I really wish these people could see that, and see that what they are doing is the total opposite of that. But I am afraid that none of them will until it is too late.

  • 105. Sagesse  |  September 4, 2010 at 1:39 am

    "No one group can truthfully say that their view is *the* view."

    It is 'fundamentally' impossible to reach the subset of Christians who want and need to have someone tell them what to do and what to think, and what's absolutely right and what's absolutely wrong. And who better than God and his earthly spokespeople. They need to submit to divine will, because thinking is hard.

    They also feel better knowing without thinking that it is their job to punish all 'others', because, that just proves beyond doubt that their handlers are right.

    These are not the people you want to reach, not the people you can reach with reason and logic and humanity. Work with the movable middle.

  • 106. Chad Phillips  |  September 4, 2010 at 3:56 am

    this doesn't make any sense. Gay marriage was voted illegal and then all of a sudden changed? We voted no. So they have every right being there to support what the California people voted for. It's ridiculous to let a handful of people change the entire vote because they didn't like the outcome the first time.

  • 107. Ronnie  |  September 4, 2010 at 4:00 am

    No not entirely….<3…Ronnie

  • 108. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 4, 2010 at 4:14 am

    And what part of Prop 8 being unconstitutional because it violates due process, equal protection and the separation of church and state because our Constitution is based on common law, not theocratic law, thereby meaning that while you have the right to your own personal religious beliefs and tenets but cannot impose them on others through the laws of this land, do you not understand?
    Also, what will it take for you to realize that the legalization of marriage equality and the end of discrimination will not harm anyone, and will instead benefit everyone, do you not understand?
    There is also the fact that the campaign to impose the discrimination known as Prop 8 was orchestrated outside the state of California, and thereby imposed the views of one small group in Salt Lake City combined with a group from New Haven Connecticut on the people of California, and that campaign used distortions of the truth, outright lies, obfuscation, and other means of deception, including fooling people into voting Yes on 8 by telling them that this would guarantee the rights of same gender families to the same protections under the law.
    So, what part of fearmongering have you missed out on when it comes to the very discriminatory Proposition 8?
    Also, there is the fact that there were already 18,000 couples who were married prior to Prop H8, and that means that if you voted in favor of Prop H8, you voted to strip your fellow Californians of their rights, simplly because you have been brainwashed into dehumanizing and demonizing anyone and everyone who does not agree with your particular religious slant. Does that really sound like the teachings of Rabbi Yoshua ben Yosef of Nazareth to you? Or would you rather believe the lies you have been taught over the years that have been based on mistranslations, misinterpretations, and redactions of the word of HaShem?

  • 109. Jim Stone  |  September 4, 2010 at 6:24 am

    I wonder when Lou will come out of the closet? His internal homophobia is boiling over!!!!
    And Huck..you cannot win elections by excluding and hating 10% of the population AND their friends and family. What a dope!!!
    Bring on the Huckabee/Palin ticket in 2010!!! (and let's keep these YouTube videos in circulation to help the voters decide… )

  • 110. Pete  |  September 4, 2010 at 6:31 am

    I was just on the Capitol Mall 20 minutes ago. You have to be impressed with the money and tech set up they obviously have. They are equipped for a crowd 10 to 15 times, at least, bigger than what is there. It's due to continue for another few hours, but temp is in the high 80's, and getting hotter. Not too many people have the stamina to stand in even these temps in full sun for very long.

    The Capitol is on 10th St. and they have the mall blocked off down to 3rd. with numerous huge video screens up on every block. But as of right now there are maybe a few thousand people on the lawns directly in front of the Capitol.

  • 111. Dpeck  |  September 4, 2010 at 8:56 am

    Hi Chad,

    OK, I'll explain it to you. Prop 8 violates the "Equal Protection" clause in the U.S. Constitution (specifically, that's in the 14th Amendment). This means it is unconstitutional because basic guaranteed Constitutional rights CANNOT be put to a majority vote.

    We can't vote on whether Fox news is allowed to have freedom of speech. We can't vote on whether people of a minority race are allowed to own land. We can't vote on whether people in a minority religeon are allowed to practice their religeon. And we can't vote on whether gay Americans can be denied equal legal rights and equal legal protections. Because all of these things are basic rights that are GUARANTEED in the U.S. Constitution.

    Here's what happened – California has a somewhat odd procedure for ballot initiatives. You can get just abotu anything on the ballot just be getting enough signatures on a petition. And the legal question of whether something on the ballot is Constitutional or unconstitutional can only happen AFTER the vote takes place. Other states do it differently, but that's how it's done in California. So in California, sometimes things get put on the ballot that should never have been put to a majority vote in the first place. Like Prop 8.

    If you still dont' agree, read the court's ruling about it. It explains very clearly why prop 8 is unconstitutional.

    And if you still don't agree after that, please come on back here and tell us exactly what part of the trial ruling you don't agree with and tell us why. Go ahead. We'll wait.

  • 112. TheCall, Day 1: The conce&hellip  |  September 4, 2010 at 10:14 am

    [...] 4, 2010 Right now Arisha, Anthony, Phyllis and Andy are on the ground for Day 2 of TheCall Sacramento. Late last night, Arisha filed the report below about Day 1 of TheCall — a Christian music [...]

  • 113. Wyocowboy  |  September 4, 2010 at 2:02 pm

    All they do is play on emotions…religion is pathic

  • 114. TheCall, Day 2: “Ma&hellip  |  September 4, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    [...] political undertones of this event — as of yet, the political message is not overt, unlike Mike Huckabee’s focus on Judge Walker’s decision in promoting TheCall. Still, every once in awhile a prayer is said in favor of [...]

  • 115. #TheCallTurnoutFAIL expos&hellip  |  September 5, 2010 at 7:33 am

    [...] keep in mind that Lou Engle and Mike Huckabee claim that more than 400,000 people attended TheCall in Washington, D.C. in 2000, as this promo for TheCall Sacramento hypes to the, er, [...]

  • 116. Marriage Wars 2.0: As mil&hellip  |  September 6, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    [...] cross-posted at Good As You, Jeremy Hooper explores the generational rift that frightens folks like Lou Engle, Brian Brown and NOM. — [...]

  • 117. Jo B.C.  |  September 9, 2010 at 6:51 am

    The Call is NOT an Extremist gathering as you propose it. It is a gathering of people like you and me who care about this nation. It is going the WRong Way!

    I am also a minister and a woman who happen to believe that God loves you. How about tolerance for the OTHER point of view?

  • 118. Ann S.  |  September 9, 2010 at 6:58 am

    Lou Engle quotes:

    “What happened to California will release a spirit that is more demonic than Islam, a spirit of lawlessness and anarchy. And a sexual insanity will be unleashed into the Earth.”

    In addition, he called for “martyrs” to become “God’s Avengers of Blood” and stop the “homosexual agenda” at any cost.

    Not extreme, huh? Do "God's Avengers" love everyone, and whose blood do they intend to shed?

  • 119. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 9, 2010 at 7:05 am

    If the Call is not a gathering of extremists, then why are they screaming at people? Why are they wanting a 40-day fast/ Why are they using militaristic imagery and bigotry? Why are they clinging to misinterpretations, misquotations, and redactions of the scriptures, and why are they taking those scriptures out ot the context of the time and culture in which they were written? If they are not extremists, then why are they so much like Fred Phelps and his family cult? If they are not extremists then why are they calling for martyrdom and the willingness to be martyrs? Why are they advocating violence against the LGBTQQIA community, not only explicitly, but also by their very rhetoric that implies it is okay to not only degrade us verbally , but that there are no holds barred in what they are allowed to do in order to "bring us to repentence"? Excuse me, but until you have walked in our shoes and been the target of these people, please do not try to excuse them or sugar coat the fact that they ARE extremists, and that they are a new kind of terrorist. They are the terrorists who are preying upon our young people and disguising their true intentions by perverting the scriptures to justify their hatred, even going so far as to twist, misinterpret, and misquote Rabbi Yoshua ben Yosef of Nazareth.

  • 120. Ronnie  |  September 9, 2010 at 7:13 am

    Oh you mean the view of Fascists who things they have a right to put their repugnant nose into my business, demand that the government force me to live my life according to said Fascists religious beliefs & definitions violating my 1st & 14th Amendment rights, as well as degrading, demeaning, insulting, offending me because I live my life honestly & as I was born to be….There is no tolerance w/in the Fundamental anti-gay Christian community unless you conform to their ideology…

    You are right about one thing…this country is going the wrong way…..but we (both LGBT's & Heterosexuals of all faiths, non-religious, all races, all creeds, all nationalities, & all ages) are fixing that & moving America in the RIGHT direction…..the direction of Freedom, Equality, REAL LOVE, Life, Liberty, & the Pursuit of Happiness…you know…the right side of history

    I'd rather be on our side (the side that always wins) history has proven that to be a fact….those who oppose freedom & human decency today will be written in history as the 21st century equivalent of those who hanged innocent men & women in Salem, those who nearly brought the Aboriginals of America to extinction, those who opposed Civil & Women's Rights, those who opposed Integration & Interracial Marriage, as well as Hitler & his crew….& mark my words…those who oppose Equality will be written as such….so sad that the religious zealots never learn their lesson…generation after generation they get bitten by the same snake of their own making..so so sad….<3…Ronnie

  • 121. AndrewPDX  |  September 9, 2010 at 7:45 am

    Greetings! Thank you for your post. Please understand that many here have been traumatized by those in religous positions who claim to 'love' us. We have been lied to oh so many times that immediate tolerance cannot be given at face value. "fool me once, shame on you… Fool me twice, shame on me." and for many here, they're up to double-digits. It's hard to trust after that much pain.

    So, I have to ask:
    If you love us, how do you plan to prove it to us?

    If you truly care for us as human beings, then I challenge you to support equality for all human beings, including the option to be bound in holy matrimony with the partner of our choice, regardless if your church would recognize it. You would be welcomed as an ally of justice.

    If thats too much to ask for, then please support the US Constitution and keep your religion out of the laws. If you could do that, then we can each go our own ways and I can tolerate your lack of compassion by just staying away from the pain you cause.

    And if you still cannot do that, then I'm sorry, but I can have no tolerance for you.

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
    Andrew

  • 122. Carl  |  September 10, 2010 at 3:18 am

    The same could be said for a video of people at an NFL football game, little league baseball game or a homosexual rally for that matter. It is a mindless accusation to relate a group of people cheering for their cause to something like Hilter allegiance.

    Plus, separation of church and state is not in the Constitution (go read it) and any verbiage related to such is not to shut down religion, but to prevent the government from controlling religion.

  • 123. Ronnie  |  September 10, 2010 at 3:20 am

    No not really…. : / ….Ronnie

  • 124. Ann S.  |  September 10, 2010 at 3:25 am

    We don't make laws based on the views of any one religion, it would violate the establishment clause.

  • 125. Carl  |  September 10, 2010 at 3:34 am

    Why do people keep lying about Christian opposition to homosexuality? Disagreeing with someone else's belief or having a different opinion is not hate toward the person you disagree with anymore than disagreeing with your best friend next door on whether building a new mall nearby is a good thing for your neighborhood. You may feel strongly about the subject, but that has nothing to with your friendship or "hating" your friend.

    Besides, if the some in the Christian community are guilty of "hate", some in the homosexual community are just as guilty in words and agenda. You don't get to accuse others of hate because they disagee with you, and claim that you are innocent when you say and do the same kinds of things towards them. Some homosexuals are just as gulity of "hate speech" as what they accuse Christians of.

  • 126. Ronnie  |  September 10, 2010 at 3:40 am

    Not not completely…nice try though… : / …Ronnie

  • 127. Ann S.  |  September 10, 2010 at 3:45 am

    Why do people keep trying to take rights away from other people, and claim that they are doing it in Christ's name? Why do people keep trying to take rights away from other people, and claim that they are doing it out of love? A lot of people here aren't feeling the love, Carl.

  • 128. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 10, 2010 at 3:48 am

    Carl, nobody here is trying to shut down religion. However, we are trying to point out that the separation of church and state is also there to protect EVERYONE from having someone else's religious beliefs imposed on them, and that includes the freedom to marry the adult of your choice in a CIVIL ceremony. Nobody is trying to stop you from practicing your religion the way you see fit. Where the trouble arises is when someone tries to codify their religious beliefs into CIVIL law, into the secular realm, with the intent to oppress others simply because they do not agree with their decision to live their lives openly and without fear. Perhaps you should go to the website for Americans United and see what President John Fitzgerald Kennedy had to say about the separation of church and state on September 12, 1960. It is so amazing that the very same people who wanted religion to stay out of the political realm then, are now calling for religion to take over politics today. People like Lou Engle, Mike Huckabee, Tony Perkins, Maggie Gallagher, Brian Brown, Louis Marinelli, and the screaming woman who was at the Call. Perhaps you should also look at what happens in countries where there is a theocratic rule–places like Iran and Iraq, for example, and perhaps you should also be forewarned that when people misuse religion to justify discrimination of one group of people they dislike, for whatever reason, they then go after other groups when they succeed with the first group they are able to dehumanize and demonize. They will not stop until they have absolute power, and you may be the next one they go after.

  • 129. Carl  |  September 10, 2010 at 3:52 am

    Sorry, but your last statement is patently wrong. Jesus loves each of us now (Christ died for those in sin), but does not love the sin (the same way Christians should be). In turning to God, He will help you get out of the things He says are not good for us or that are wrong (sin is mostly things that affect others in a wrong or bad way).

    However, if you choose to follow your own way and not follow Him, there are consequences, just like there are consequences with the law for stealing, vandalism, etc. The police don't hate you because they throw you in jail for that. It is the result due to your own choices.

  • 130. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 10, 2010 at 3:55 am

    We are not the ones who are going out to supposedly peaceful rallies with signs calling for the death of others, such as Lynching Larry did, nor are we the ones trying to prevent you from marrying the person you love. We are not the ones who are calling G-d a terrorist (that was Lou Engle). We are not the ones advocating that folks become martyrs for the cause. When people stop abusing religion, and stop trying to sugar coat their hatred by calling it love, when people stop mistranslating and misinterpreting the scriptures by using redacted texts, and begin to look at the cultures and the history behind the original texts, when people stop trying to play the victim card when they are not the ones who are being beaten to death for who they are, then you can come back and talk about hatred. There is a difference between expressing pain and harm and calling a spade a spade and those who are being hateful accusing us of being haters. Try having your own thoughts instead of what you are spoon fed by others who don't want you to examine the scriptures for yourself, and who do not want you to know anything except what they tell you.

  • 131. Franck  |  September 10, 2010 at 3:58 am

    Carl, you're right, disagreeing with your best friend next door isn't hate. Spending millions of dollars to teach people that he's TEH DEVIL in order to write your dislike of him into law though, that's pure hate. That's the difference here.

    Come talk to me about anti-christian hate the day some big LGBT denomination succeeds in passing an amendment (using millions of dollars better spent helping the poor) that would strip Christians of one of their most basic rights… let's say, the right to worship.

    Oh, and you'll notice, there are a lot of Christians here on this site who completely disagree with you. Are you accusing them of being against religion too? Oh, I bet you do.

    – Franck P. Rabeson
    Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1176 days, as of today.

  • 132. Ronnie  |  September 10, 2010 at 4:05 am

    "Christ died for those in sin"….PROVE IT!!!….He didn't die for me I have not "sinned" in terms of me being born Gay…so thats moot….The real life Jesus (not some fictions fairytale version made up by "Christians") was murdered because he was a threat to the ruling power of that time period (wrong on so many levels but realistic all the same).

    Funny how your definition of "sin" applies to making you feel comfortable & better about yourself while demeaning, insulting, degrading, & offending others who don't conform to your autocratic & theocratic ideology.

    Get over yourself Fascist….<3…Ronnie

  • 133. Richard A. Walter (s  |  September 10, 2010 at 4:17 am

    @ Carl, when will you realize that our affectional orientation is NOT a choice, but whether or not we are honest with ourselves and those around us is? Even Rabbi Yoshua ben Yosef stated that, in a verse that has been so mistranslated over the centuries. You see, in the verse where he mentions the three types of "eunuchs" (that is the mistranslation that has been handed down since the early days), he himself states that some are born gay, some are castrated by men, and some take a vow of celibacy for the Kingdom. Also, when are you folks actually going to go back a re-read what Saul of Tarsus is supposed to have written (there is some dispute as to whether he himself wrote them or if someone wrote them in his name) and actually look at those parts where he says it is he himself speaking, thereby indicating that certain things are only his opinion and are not to be made into church dogma? And before you try throwing Leviticus at me, I am Jewish, and even before I became aware of the fact that I am Jewish, when I was raised Protestant and then converted to Catholic, I studied the texts quite thoroughly, and came to find out that the "laws" in Leviticus were not intended for anyone except the Levitical priesthood, which is why the book is called Leviticus. These laws dealt with ceremonial cleanliness and not morality per se. These were the requirements for the priests to be able to enter into the holy of holies. They were reminders not to participate in the pagan rituals of the neighboring countries, including those rituals wherein to appease the fertility gods and goddesses of the area, people who were straight were to go into the temples of those gods and goddesses and have sex with the temple prostitutes of the same gender so as to guarantee both a bountiful crop in the fields and the healthy and bountiful birth of children. The laws were not about prohibiting loving, committed relationships between those of the same gender who were born gay. They were about the abuses of being promiscuous and partaking of prostitution.
    And yes, there was a recognition of same gender marriages in the Bible. Even Saul knew about the relationship between his son Jonathan and the future King of Israel, David. Even Saul acknowledged that he was David's father-in-law in two ways, since David was also married to Saul's daughter. And there are numerous Psalms that David wrote about Jonathan that reveal that theirs was more than a platonic love. However, there are those who do not want to recognize the diveristy of HaShem's creation, and choose to deny to themselves that we are created to be who we are, and that we have the same rights to marry the person of our heart's and soul's desire, simply because we are not exactly identical to them.
    And yes, when you actively work to make sure that people are denied their full rights as citizens, when you try to interject one particular set of religious beliefs into the CIVIL law of this country, you are practicing hatred.
    When you support organizations that advocate lynching, beating, burning, stabbing, and other means of harm, whether physical, verbal, emotional, spiritual, religious, or otherwise, that is hatred.
    And if our affectional orientation is a "choice," then answer this question: When did you choose to be straight?

  • 134. Anonygrl  |  September 10, 2010 at 5:15 am

    When I heard one of the speakers calling for, in a very "wait, what am I supposed to be mad about today, oh ,yeah right…" sort of way, girls to repent the "plague of lesbianism and kissing girls", I realized that no, she did not love me.

  • 135. CeeVee  |  September 10, 2010 at 10:30 am

    @Carl: No, YOUR whole philosophy towards gay people and their supposed "sins" are WRONG. I am sick to death that the only people who oppose gay equality (whether through marriage, serving in the military, adopting children, or through our mere existence) are always spewing their fundamentalist hate-filled vitriol. The "love the sinner, hate the sin" mentality is a tired old mantra from people who have nothing better to say and who have not actually learned to think for themselves.

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