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Building our Prop 8 Trial Tracker community: Write, Fan, Follow, Join, Share, Support

August 22, 2010

Community/Meta

By Eden James

Because of you, the Prop 8 Trial Tracker has now attracted nearly 3 million views and 55,218 comments have been posted since the site launched in January. But, because this case will likely carry on for a number of months if not years, this is just the beginning.

As we transition here from Adam, Arisha, Anthony, Phyllis, Danny and Robert’s amazing NOM Tour Tracker coverage back to regular coverage of the Prop 8 trial, I thought today might be a good opportunity to remind you of a few ways you can help support our work — and support each other.

With that in mind, please consider the following opportunities to write, fan, follow, join, share, and support…

  • WRITE: Would you like to write on the front page for Prop 8 Trial Tracker? Because the Prop 8 Trial Tracker community is such an incredible reservoir of talented writers, we put a call out on Friday for guest writers to diversify our voices on the front page and build this community even more. You can find all the details in Adam’s post on Friday. If you’re not interested in writing, you can still nominate your fellow commenters in the comments section on his post — which has developed into a quite a robust discussion. We’re interested in your opinion, if you haven’t expressed it already.
  • JOIN: Would you like to receive email updates on the trial as well as from Courage? Sign up here to receive breaking-news alerts and other developments in the case. You’ll receive an average of two email messages per week, which include opportunities to take action together, along with our 700,000 other members and supporters.
  • SHARE: Tell your friends about Prop 8 Trial Tracker. With the news about the trial going “mainstream”, more and more people are hearing about Prop 8 and the injustice caused by it. If you Google “Prop 8 trial” right now, the Prop 8 Trial Tracker is the first result that comes up. Let’s keep that going!
  • SUPPORT: Unlike organizations funded by corporations, the Courage Campaign Institute relies on small donations from thousands of people to make projects like P8TT, NOM Tour Tracker, Testimony, the Courageous Families Photo Project and The Wedding Matters possible. Without your support, we could not continue supporting these projects. To help us keep covering the trial, can you support the Trial Tracker by contributing to the Courage Campaign Institute?

Thank you so much for making the Prop 8 Trial Tracker such a success. And thank you for continuing to build this community into a national water cooler over these many months. It’s been amazing to witness.

Feel free to use this as an Open Thread to discuss whatever is on your mind, share links, and connect on this beautiful Sunday…

Twitt

54 Comments Leave a Comment

  • 1. Ķĭŗîļĺę&  |  August 22, 2010 at 4:45 am

    Writing, Fanning, Following, Joining, Sharing, Supporting! :D

  • 2. Kathleen  |  August 22, 2010 at 4:55 am

    Hi Kirille.

  • 3. Ķĭŗîļĺę&  |  August 22, 2010 at 4:56 am

    Hi, Kathleen!

    I just looked at P8TT Facebook page: exactly 2010 members! In the year of 2010! heh!

  • 4. AndrewPDX  |  August 22, 2010 at 4:59 am

    <cite>Feel free to use this as an Open Thread to discuss whatever is on your mind, share links, and connect on this beautiful Sunday…</cite>

    Like we would stop anyways :)

    Liberty, Equality, Fraternity
    Andrew

  • 5. Sagesse  |  August 22, 2010 at 5:05 am

    Communing.

  • 6. Carpool Cookie  |  August 22, 2010 at 6:11 am

    As we talk about following the Prop H8 issue online, what are others' thoughts on debating people about this online?

    I often contribute to discussions about marriage equality at Huffington Post and imdb (the Carrie Prejean was once a hotbed for this, though it's now shifted over to the discission board for 8: The Mormon Proposition.

    But I wonder if it's really a good use of time. On the one hand, even if you don't win over someone to your point of view on such a board, the argument is visible to the public….and that's good. On the other hand, you want to get the most bang for your buck and get the word out there where it can do the most good.

    What do the rest of you think of arguing for Marriage Equality online….is it anywhere it really does good?

  • 7. Carpool Cookie  |  August 22, 2010 at 6:12 am

    Okay, at second glance, I'm not even going to address the number of typos in my above post. I hope you all get what I'm asking : )

  • 8. DazedWheels  |  August 22, 2010 at 7:04 am

    Hi Kirille and Kathleen. :-)

  • 9. Ed  |  August 22, 2010 at 7:06 am

    Writing, Fanning, Following, Joining, Sharing, Supporting! :D

    Kirille's words not mine :)

    glad to be with you all. You make this Texan proud

  • 10. Sheryl Carver  |  August 22, 2010 at 7:10 am

    Hi, Cookie!

    Many people want to do something to help improve equal rights for all. We all have different skill sets, & different resources (time, money, etc) available to us. We also have different tolerances – I, for example, can only read/listen to so much of the same tired old rhetoric before I have to quit. Others can stay centered for much longer (wish I could channel Boies & Olson).

    So I think it comes down to an individual's assessment of how to get the biggest bang for THEIR buck(s). Some folks are really good at contributing full articles or blogs. For others, due to time constraints, a pithy comment on a website may be a very effective use of their limited time. Some people are good at door-to-door work or election phone banks. (The very thought of doing this makes me want to curl into a fetal position.) On the other hand, it's relatively painless for me to post comments here or on some other sites.

    And of course, keeping all of one's elected officials aware that equality is important, we aren't going away, & we notice BOTH their support (sending thank yous) & their lack thereof (written kicks-in-the-pants). (This seems to require more effort on my part, so I don't do this nearly as much as I could or should.)

    Specifically re: online debates/comments
    I think one's effectiveness is only limited by the number of people who are likely to actually read & consider your comments. It's probably impossible to tell how many people might read & think but not write themselves, so you have no way of knowing about that audience segment unless you can get access to the number of views. And then you still don't know if those viewers-only "get" what you're saying.

    However, as more than one person has said, if what they write can help one LGBT person know that they are not bad/sinful/alone, it's worth doing. And especially here, but on other sites as well, I've encountered some really good ways of countering the garbage spewed by the NOMers & their ilk.

    If a site has hundreds of comments, even the most well-written one will get lost in the noise, so it might not be worth your time.

    I'm from a small town in Maine, so I sometimes post comments on the local paper's site. Don't know if they have any effect, but I feel like I know more about those folks' perspective, so maybe I can get through to somebody.

    Hope some of the above makes sense.
    Good luck!

  • 11. Ann S.  |  August 22, 2010 at 7:20 am

    Hi Kirille, Kathleen and David!

  • 12. Paul in Minneapolis  |  August 22, 2010 at 7:39 am

    It is a good use of time!

    I have been told that I've changed a few minds because of my posts arguing for marriage equality on the Minneapolis Star Tribune website.

    Unfortunately, the Strib employs some censors who delete a lot of comments they should allow to remain, so I've stopped posting there — but the point remains that every lie we counter with the truth, every fear we put to rest, every opposing argument we rebut and every calm and well-thought-out case we make for marriage equality has the potential to change minds.

    Every opportunity and every mind matters!

  • 13. MJFargo  |  August 22, 2010 at 7:53 am

    I second Paul. Letting comments stand without clarification and/or exposure only lets a reader not consider both sides. While people may not change the minds of other posters, I firmly believe readers who are trying to understand issues need to consider both sides.

    I'm one who likes to argue reasonably. Although I admire people who can write a clever turn of phrase.

  • 14. Owen  |  August 22, 2010 at 7:57 am

    I'm infuriated. The gay rights establishment has failed us.

    This is a huge race, and it's been neglected by everyone:
    http://www.thealbanyproject.com/showDiary.do?diar…

    Known bigot Ruben Diaz, he who thwarted gay marriage in New York, is facing a primary challenge from pro-equality candidate Charlie Ramos.

    Ramos is still facing a huge deficit in resources. WTF!?

  • 15. Ray in MA  |  August 22, 2010 at 7:58 am

    Seems to be a slow news Sunday…

    I just cane across:
    http://www.queerty.com/just-how-far-will-90210-ta…

    and it got me recollecting way back in the 80's… The first gay TV character I remember was on Dynasty.

    My gay friends would get together every wednesday night to watch it… primarily because it had a gay character…it triggered a comradory that I still have with those old friends 30 years later. (wow, I'm I getting old or what?!?!)

    Back then Marriage Equality was only a sparkle in our hearts…

    WOW have things changed… fast forward to Queer as Folk on Cable TV!

    Now we have TV shows like Modern Family with a gay family/couple (not really 'married', tho, because it's CA)

    TV and Film Media have a special place in "Gay Evolution"…bringing people together.

    For those too young to remember Dynasty:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qketnkovu4s

  • 16. DazedWheels  |  August 22, 2010 at 8:03 am

    Hi Ann! :-)

  • 17. Ray in MA  |  August 22, 2010 at 8:15 am

    BTW, Dynasty series ran from 1981-1989 and had special mini series recurring as late as 1991.

    I know some of you must be saying BFD, but some of you might enjoy reminising.

  • 18. Don in Texas  |  August 22, 2010 at 8:30 am

    Indeed, it is a valuable exercise to promote equality in online discussions. Once such advocacy reaches a crescendo, it is difficult for all but the most obstinate to continue opposing it.

    Online discussions, letters to the editors, postings on Facebook, My Space and other social media, conversations with family, friends, neighbors and co-workers and your own email listserves can emphasize and expand the work of the Courage Campaign.

    In the end, we will win. And our opponents know it.

  • 19. Carpool Cookie  |  August 22, 2010 at 8:34 am

    Good ideas. I'm impressed with you guys writing to smaller locale newspapers. That may be an audience that can actually be reached, and benefit from a poster that has more facts than a local editor or reporter (or resident) may have.

    I'll create an account with my home town newspaper….even though I don't reside there anymore!

  • 20. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 22, 2010 at 8:43 am

    Late to the party once again. Oh, well. I don't look to ever catch up anyway.

  • 21. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 22, 2010 at 8:55 am

    Well, Ray in MA, I am about to show how old I really am. Not only do I remember Dynasty, I remember when Linda Evans played Audra on Big Valley with Lee Majors as her brother Heath, I remember Pamela Sue Martin when she played Nancy Drew, and I remember Joan Collins' guest spot on Star Trek playing a 1930's social worker. Not to mention John Forsyth as the voice of Charlie, and a show before that where he played a widowed ambassador with children who was stationed in Rome.

  • 22. JonT  |  August 22, 2010 at 8:56 am

    Helm, set course for Subscription 178, Warp Factor 7.

    Engage!

  • 23. PamC  |  August 22, 2010 at 9:02 am

    @Richard…Joan Collins' episode on Star Trek–every close up in a soft glow with starry eyes–you bet I don't forget that one! :)

  • 24. JonT  |  August 22, 2010 at 9:10 am

    'Joan Collins’ episode on Star Trek–every close up in a soft glow with starry eyes–you bet I don’t forget that one'

    "The City on the Edge of Forever".

    Considered by many to be one of the best of the original series.

    Being a guy though, I considered "Balance of Terror" and "The Enterprise Incident" to be the best of the original Star Trek.

    I too remember watching Dynasty (reruns I think), because of an actual non-stereotypical gay character.

    Anybody remember "Soap"? A series that ran for a season or two – Billy Crystal (I think) was the gay character in that one. Also, non-stereotypical (mostly).

    Good times, good times :)

  • 25. Ķĭŗîļĺę&  |  August 22, 2010 at 9:45 am

    Regarding what can we do to get the word out and to change people's minds.

    I've found myself thinking about it a lot lately in the wake of Felyx's planned visit to Russia when he fully recovers.  (As some of you know, we've announced our engagement on Facebook.)  And what I have been thinking about is my part in getting people to know what “gay” really means by simply being an example to my friends and family.

    The very thought of it seems to be scary and troublesome, but I'm thinking about it constantly.  It is scary to be first among others who hide in the shadows, and it could be dangerous.  But, God is my witness (if s/he exists), I want to hold my Felyx's hand when we walk down the streets of Russia, I want to look into his eyes lovingly without fear of being noticed and tagged as a homo with grave consequences, I want to kiss him in the park and show the people there is nothing wrong with two men or two women being in love.

    Maybe some of you, P8TTers, remember how it used to be 30-40 years ago, how scared you were to come out, what were you thinking, were you glad about your choices (to come out or to stay in the shadows)?  Please, do share your thoughts on that for us to read!

    – ♂K♥F♂

  • 26. Ray in MA  |  August 22, 2010 at 10:18 am

    Yes Richard, your are OLD… (not much more than me tho!)

    Was the show called "Bachelor Father" (Forsythe)?

    Another single parent sit-com… Diahann Carroll …1968 – 1971!
    (Earl J. Wagedorn!!!)

    So scandalous for the time. Single parent comedy/dramas.

    …they should have been exemplified in the Prop 8 Trial on behalf of children successfully being raised wihout a FATHER and a MOTHER!

  • 27. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 22, 2010 at 10:30 am

    Yes, it very well could have been the Bachelor Father. And yes, I remember watching Julia with Diahann Carroll, who later went on to be one of the vixens on Dynasty. And another single parent show was The Courtship of Eddy's Father with Bill Bixby and Brandon Cruz. And who could forget Family Affair with Brian Keith and Sebastian Cabot?

  • 28. Ray in MA  |  August 22, 2010 at 10:34 am

    Soap! Billy Crystal (as Jodie!). Another very early gay TV character. (but the gay character was very low key… to early for Americans to stomach… 1979!)

  • 29. Ray in MA  |  August 22, 2010 at 10:42 am

    The Courtship of Eddy’s Father with Bill Bixby and Brandon Cruz.

    "let me teel you 'bout my Best Friend" … they were both so cute together.

    "Too many rules… then we have less freedom"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCF7Dnov8vA

  • 30. Ray in MA  |  August 22, 2010 at 10:59 am

    Hi ĶĭŗîļĺęΧҲΪ,

    Here's another facet of being gay and married and being old enough to recall what it was like 30-40 years ago…

    TODAY, I have parents that are elderly and beyond comprehending and dealing with having a gay married son.

    They know I am gay and they are very cordial (and very much like my "partner" of 30 years) I've submitted to the fact that they will probably never know… it's in their best interest at this point in their lives to keep things simple. I put this above my own desire to tell them.

    Showing strangers on the street that you are gay and in love is very different from revealing yourself to loved ones who do not have the ability to understand (and more complicated than I can go into here).

    Ray

    It's something hard to live with (as we are) in this world today.

  • 31. Felyx  |  August 22, 2010 at 11:10 am

    I will tell you one thing… no matter how many times you get beat up… one kiss really will make all the hurt go away. All the physical discomfort that comes with being bruised, kicked, beaten and bones broken (the one thing I lucked out on and never had to experience) will seem like nothing the first time you realize that you are in love and that you will always be loved.

    I am sure that there are many straight couples that would take a beating or worse for their spouse, but I know for a fact that there are many gay couples that actually do go through hell just to be able to know that they will and can love each other.

    I had been severely beaten at school, high school and once even in college. I have spent a lifetime of being openly rejected, abused by opportunistic gay men, maligned, fired and worst of all, not loved by those I had no choice but to trust. I sometimes watch documentaries of Nazi death camps and wonder if I would have had an easier time surviving considering the experiences I have been forced to endure. I would not wish any of this on anyone and I see gay men my age who seem successful and well off. They hide in the closet, betray other gay people, cruise the gym for hook-ups and quick sex but do nothing to contribute to our rights, our causes or our people. They pride themselves on their accomplishments but still have no one to come home to at the end of the day. In a very biblical way they have gained the world and lost their very souls!

    I had to come out and I had no support whatsoever. It is quite an understatement to say that it was painful. I believe that those who say it is a choice have truly never had to make a serious choice like this EVER!

    Obviously I would play it safe for now but if the time comes and you are forced to make a choice… take the harder stronger path and stand up for yourself. Betraying yourself is more insidiously damaging than being tortured! All the physical and mental abuse in the world will not be able to undo the pride you will have in yourself! And no amount of success and comfort is worth living a soul-killing lie. It doesn't lead to happiness!

    And just remember, no matter what kind of pain you suffer, it will all evaporate to nothing the moment you fall asleep in the arms of the one you love.

    I love you Kirill, I fear for you but by the same token I have faith in you. I will do my best to ease whatever suffering comes your way. And when the doors open, I will be waiting with open arms.

    Felyx

  • 32. Dpeck  |  August 22, 2010 at 11:19 am

    And let's not forget two other early pioneering TV shows that featured gay couples:
    1. "My Favorite Martian", an early 60's sitcom about an uptight younger man and flamboyant older man who live together in a cute little apartment above a garage, and tell the neighbors the older man is the younger mans' 'uncle'.
    2. "Johnny Quest", Hanna-Barbera's groundgreaking portrayal of a modern gay couple raising two children from different ethnic backgrounds. The couple was comprised of Dr. Quest (who apparently had degrees in absolutely everything from biochemistry to astrophysics) and his partner / pilot / "traveling companion", the handsome Race Bannon.

    At least that's how I interpreted these shows when I was younger : )

  • 33. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 22, 2010 at 11:31 am

    You mean I'm not the only one who thought Batman, Robin, and Alfred were a menage a trois?

  • 34. Dpeck  |  August 22, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Hi Carpool Cookie,

    I work in the Professional Audio industry (recording studio stuff, live concert sound mixing etc.) and I sometimes participate in a pro audio related discussion forum. This forum has several subforums and it used to have an off-topic 'shoot the breeze' subforum for political discussion. A couple of years ago, during the run-up to the 2008 election and Prop 8, there were several discussion threads about marriage equality, DADT and other LGBT-related political issues. I often dove right in and gave 'our side' of the argument.

    Of course, being an internet forum, there were always a few juvenile trolls who would say whatever they thought might get a reaction, but I am grateful to say I always took the high road and stuck to the task of providing accurate information and logical arguments.

    I didn't participate in those discussion threads because I expected to turn any trolls into LGBT allies, I did this because of all the other people reading who were somewhere in the middle of the spectrum on the issue and who were reading with an open mind.

    And I was very pleased to see that a good number of participants actually DID change their minds on these issues. They went from either opposing LGBT rights or (more often) just being very ignorant of the issues to really understanding just how unfair and un-American things like Prop 8 really were. Over time, several forum members began to rally to my defense and take up our side of the argument. Some of them did a great job of articulating how they had changed their opinions on the issue. It was very gratifying.

    So I say yes, by all means speak out and give our side of the argument anywhere you have the opportunity to do so. Just don't get pulled into a fight with the trolls. Keep in mind what the goal is – to inform the people in the middle and move them to our side of the argument.

  • 35. JonT  |  August 22, 2010 at 11:49 am

    @Ray: 1979??

    Wow, I just checked that. I was in college when I saw it, in the early 1990's! Haha – I thought it was produced then – had no idea it was repeats :)

    I suddenly have an urge to see the whole thing again. Must see if I can find dvd's :)

    Never heard of "The courtship od Eddies father". Something else I guess I should look up :)

  • 36. Carpool Cookie  |  August 22, 2010 at 12:00 pm

    Yes….it is good to get basic facts out there, because other readers who might not even be posting in a discussion could read them.

    For instance, it's such a commonly held fear that some conservative churches will be sued and somehow "closed down" (!) for not performing gay marriages in states that allow same sex marriage.

    And if they've read it, then the next time it comes up in a conversation, thy can say, "Well, I was afraid of tha, too….but there was this online LINK…"

  • 37. Carpool Cookie  |  August 22, 2010 at 12:04 pm

    And let's not forget that squabbling domestic duo, Bert and Ernie. (Though they did have separate beds, like Lucy and Ricky…)

  • 38. Dpeck  |  August 22, 2010 at 12:06 pm

    Hmm. I never picked up on the gay subplot in Batman, but here's another one – Wild Wild West. Although the two lead characters were not gay, I couldn't help noticing that in a LOT of the episodes, the handsome James West (Robert Conrad) invariably ended up shirtless and tied up, often by rather, um, flamboyant villians. What's up with THAT?

  • 39. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 22, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    @ Carpool Cookie: Yes, and I saw a thing on Yahoo the other day that was showing some nice cake toppers, and they had one of Bert & Ernie, and Ernie's hand was in Bert's back pocket. I want that cake topper!
    @Dpeck: Yes, I did notice that in nearly every episode, Robert Conrad ended up shirtless and tied up. If only I had been old enough then!

  • 40. Carpool Cookie  |  August 22, 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Being an out gay, lesbian or bisexual person is extremely important…I would almost say the most important thing a gay person can do. One of Harvey Milk's stands was that if your average American could see that gays are not the people they've read about in outdated books or pamphlets but instead their brothers and sisters, their neighbors, their mail carriers etc., they would realize they are not scary or "other", but ,instead, people they work alongside every day.

    When you come out to people, remember that you can keep it as simple as possible. You're not asking them for a check, you're not asking them for acceptance (at least, you needn't right away)….you're merely inviting them to see you, and to know you better.

    If you can keep the focus simple, along those lines, it may not seem so overwhelming.

    Also…..I speak as someone who's had the luxury of living in cosmopolitan cities that had visible gay communities. (Even though I always kind of choke on the phrase "gay community", which gives me visions of us all living on the same street and having cookouts together every weekend.) But if anyone's in a smaller town, it's immperative that they find other gay people outside bars to share experiences and strategies with. One of the worst things about growing up gay can be the loneliness that comes from feeling there aren't others around who understand you. This dynamic must be dissolved in adulthood.

  • 41. Dpeck  |  August 22, 2010 at 12:20 pm

    Hi Felyx and Kirille,

    Your bravery is amazing. I hope you know that, like a lot of others here, I would do anything to support you two and I would never suggest that you do anything that is not true to yourselves.

    But – someone has to say this – be careful.

    Choose your battles wisely.

    Live to fight another day.

    And if you are set on taking actions that really could result in possibly getting attacked or hurt in any way (like public displays of affection in an extremely anti-gay environment), please take every possible precation. Like learning self-defense techniques and getting really good at it. Take some classes. Do not allow yourselves to get outnumbered. We wouldn't want anything to happen to you two.

  • 42. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 22, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    I think one of the things that helps those of us who are out here in the Fayetteville/Ft. Bragg/Cumberland County area of North Carolina is the fact that we do have some openly gay singles and couples who are in businesses that are not within the stereotypical career paths most people think of for LGBT's. We have a lesbian couple who own the local shoe repair shop, and while we do have a gay florist, and one of our adult sons is a hairdresser, we also know LGBT doctors, lawyers, and other careers that people don't normally think of anyone being in if they are LGBT. And I see that as another big thing. We need to let folks know that while there are those within the Rainbow Tribe who do fit the stereotype, that they are not the only LGBT folks they know. We need to let them see the full spectrum of the Rainbow Tribe, and that is the importance of being out.

  • 43. Paul in Minneapolis  |  August 22, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Here's another point to consider — you never know whose mind you might change, or how your personal stories can have an impact.

    I play in a clarinet quartet with three very close friends. I was very pleasantly surprised when one of them announced that her husband — Jim Meffert — is running for U.S. Congress (Minnesota third district). I think he has a good chance of winning, as his opponent, Erik Paulsen, doesn't seem too terribly popular.

    I don't know Jim nearly as well as I know his wife Karrin, but after a gig Karrin and I both played, she invited me over to her house for a glass of wine. I sat on her patio and talked to her and Jim about marriage equality, and how the lack of marriage equality has affected me and my husband of 21+ years.

    Jim and Karrin, of course, didn't need their minds changed about marriage equality — they've been straight allies since … well, since forever as far as I know. But now Jim has heard some of my personal stories. Come January there might be a U.S. congressman who personally knows me, knows about me, and has knowledge of my experiences that he can use to persuade his colleagues on GLBT issues.

    How cool is that?

    I had no idea Jim was even interested in politics — much less running for Congress — until Karrin told us Jim was running. You never know who might read one of your blog posts — maybe a future candidate for congress, governor, senator, president — it's possible. And it just might be your post that changes this person's mind, or gives this person the perspective s/he needs to become our advocate.

    If an ordinary person like me can make a difference, anyone can. The pen is mighty indeed. Use it well, often and everywhere!

  • 44. Richard A. Walter (s  |  August 22, 2010 at 12:41 pm

    You know, Paul, this brings to mind a song from Reba McEntire's Duets CD that was never released as a single, but that I thought should have been. It is a duet Reba does with Carole King called "Everyday People" and while the song mentions three specific ways people were everyday heroes (the first verse is about college seniors going to New Orleans to help rebuild after Katrina, the second verse is about friends who get together to help a single mother keep her bills paid while undergoing cancer treatment, and the third is about the effect of the everyday heroes who work with Habitat for Humanity), the chorus inspires me to do what I can to help change minds and have those conversations that can help in the battle for marriage equality.
    The chorus simply says:

    "Everyday People are the ones who are making miracles, and it's beautiful.
    Everyday People lifting up the world like an answered prayer, I thank G-d they're there!
    Everyday People!"

    It is exactly that–all of us sharing about our everyday lives, and what the lack of marriage equality does to us and to our families, that will make the difference.

  • 45. Carpool Cookie  |  August 22, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    You know, speaking of coming out, about 2 years ago my friend in Greenwich CT said one of the teachers at the Academy of the Sacred Heart (a secular teacher, not a nun), was an out lesbian. She was unmarried, and the class sent her cards and a present when she announced she was pregnant.

    My soccer-mom-friend was actually kind of distressed, because she felt they were sending the kids mixed messages. That the church teaches that homosexuality and pregnancy outside of marriage are mortal sins….yet here the kids were encouraged to celebrate their lesbian teacher's pregnancy?

    I didn't really know what the right answer was because I'm not Catholic. I do know that Catholic institutions often confuse me.

  • 46. Bob  |  August 22, 2010 at 2:28 pm

    my dear Krill, (pardon the abreveation), I know very well your desire to be with your loved one, but be there is a difference between being with him, embracing, kissing, loving, and actually flaunting it.

    I remember the joys of all the things you talk about, which we did discreetly, when times called for discretion, we enjoyed the love we shared, in a way unvisibile to those around us.

    But a smooch in the twilight, and embrace, out of view, fulfilled our desires, without drawing attention.

    It iindeed is wonderful to walk down the street and hold hands, particuarily in the gay village, where we feel safer.,

    You seem a little conflicted by what you want, which is on the one hand to enjoy your love, my concern is the statement "I want to kiss him in the park and show the people there is nothing wrong with two men or two women being in love." This open display of affection which you want others to notice, brings another dimension including, people with attitudes and feelings you have no control over.

    I would suggest , forget about them, get comfortable with yourselves first, and the sublte displays of affection will be your joy, and from this if one day, if someone else seems to notice, they will see it comes from a place of true affection between lovers, and respect if for that by accepting and appreciating it without any negative response, and quiet likely no respons at all, it becomes a non event, to those who may galnce in your direction, at that moment.

    how brave of you to have come out on facebook, so some of your freinds will be aware of this love you share, and in their homes you well may be able to be affectionate, but with the same people in plublic, they may be very uncomfortable, even being seen with you if you were holding hands.

    How wonderful, that you will get together, and how great for Felyx, to travel to Russia, what a romance, I wish you every joy, and I am so greatfull that you have shared this part of your selves here, so that I may dream of this romance.

    And finally Krill, thanks for your courage and desire to be open to your friends and family, in doing so you just allow them to get ot know you more deeply,, my wishes are with you and prayers,

    Have you told any of your family, or closest friends yet, it will be interesting to see who you start with and the reactions you get, please keep us posted.

  • 47. Straight Grandmother  |  August 22, 2010 at 10:15 pm

    Let's justt re title this as the Kirille & Felyx thread.

    Ditto what Bob & DPeck said.
    Speaking from a straight mother's perspective, when my kids came out it didn't take me very long, only a couple days to completely be fine with it. However it did take me some time to be comfortable seeing my children holding hands, kissing and touching thier gay lovers. It took me time guys. So take it one step at a time, and my suggestion is to keep your physical need to hold hands, kiss and just generally touch each other to more private moments.

    You are looking at things from your prospective (your needs, wants and desires) and I hope I can encourage you to look at things from the reciepent of your "Big News" perspective.

    A big thing like this will take them time to adjust to make it as easy as possible for THEM. Think of it as a sales presentation. When I prepare a sales presentation I think of what my customers needs are, not my desire to sell them my product. So what are your mother's needs Kirill?
    Every mother wants her son to be happy.
    Every mother wants her son to have a wife (now you will have to convince her that Felyx is right for you instead of a wife)
    Every mother wants grandchildren and for me this was one of the hardest things for me to "give up" my dreams of when my children came out. Grandchildren, and thinking you won't ever have any is HARD. Thankfully this did not turn out to be true for me my daughter and her wife blessed us with twins :) .

    You will do what feels right for you but my advise is to only do the following gesture of physical attraction for each other. Felyx sits on a chair at the dining room table and Kirille stands behind and puts his hands on the shoulders of Felyx.
    I do think it is good to show a small physical contact and the above (only my opinion) is enough to start with on a first visit. I believe for you 2 you will be surprised what that small gesture is going to feel like in front of your friends and family, it will good. Just that gesture of putting your hands on your lover's shoulders in front of your family and friends is going to be electric and you will feel solidarity and solid as a couple. I don't think you will need to do any more than that for you to feel the satisfaction your are craving.

    Good luck to you 2 guys!!!!!!!!!!!
    Your love story is one of the best things on this website.
    xxoo- Straight Grandmother

  • 48. Franck  |  August 22, 2010 at 10:39 pm

    Ditto – these guys' story is making me jealous. ;-)

    Say, SG, is there a way I can keep in more regular contact with you besides this site? Of course, Facebook and Skype are a definite no-no at work (and I won't be getting a connection at home before two weeks at best), but I've learnt to cheat so I could talk to C. through Yahoo, AIM and/or MSN. Would you happen to use one of these?

    – Franck P. Rabeson
    Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1158 days, as of today.

  • 49. JC (1 of the 18,000  |  August 22, 2010 at 11:42 pm

    And don't let's forget the dead tree version of the newspaper! I email in letters to our local paper regularly (and total strangers have even called me at home to thank me), and my letters have always been printed. I credit that to living in the fact-based reality community…..

    The last one was even thanks to this group–Anna Bryan gave me great fodder for disputing the "judicial activist" notion.

    Remember who the audience is for dead trees–older folks who may not be reading your comments online. I'll never know if I've changed any hearts or minds, but I do get a lot of good feedback from allies that I've given them new arguments or a drop in blood pressure. I figure that's worthwhile, too.

  • 50. Felyx  |  August 22, 2010 at 11:59 pm

    @SG

    Every mother wants her son to have a wife (now you will have to convince her that Felyx is right for you instead of a wife)

    Well, I cook really well, I keep a clean house (usually ;P), I do laundry, shopping, can cut hair, raise kids (actually already did a lot of that with my siblings when my parents totally copped out so I have some prior experience), can fix a flat tire and rebuild an engine, and I bring home a very decent paycheck and own my own house.

    Anything else? (Do you think she will approve?… !!!)

    Alas, if I only had a uterus!!!

    Felyx

    PS: Do I get extra credit for being awesome in bed?… !! ;P

  • 51. Sheryl, Mormon Mothe  |  August 23, 2010 at 6:13 am

    Carpool Cookie, the reason so many people have that fear is that organizations, such as NOM, have spread that information in their misrepresentation of the facts. These organizations are very, very good at twisting the facts.

    Sheryl, Mormon Mother

  • 52. Straight Grandmother  |  August 23, 2010 at 9:46 am

    Cutting Hair is a biggie. Mothers spend a lot of money on getting haircuts for their sons. Girls, you can let the hair grow out if you are tight on the budget, but boys… oh boys, you gotta spend the money to get their hair cut even if it is not in the budget as, well… you just have to keep your boys looking trim.

    With that in mind, bring along your haircutting tools and you might win some people over :) .

    Rebuilding an engine is also big. I remember in the 1970's, if you remember then the cars were not built as good as today, and my mother worked with a divroced woman who was always having car trouble. I will never ever forget this, the woman said this at work and my mother repeated it to me, "I would live in sin if the guy was a mechanic"

    Personally I think Kirille really SCORED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    AND you didn't even put in that you speak French, you are the BOMB Kevyn.

  • 53. Straight Grandmother  |  August 23, 2010 at 9:49 am

    Correction, You are the BOMB Felyx!!!!!!!

    Well maybe not, Kevyn with, on his own, how he has completely mastered English even the nuances of topical English shows you he is your equal, he ain't no slouch either.

  • 54. My last day with Prop 8 T&hellip  |  August 23, 2010 at 4:05 pm

    [...] So keep writing, donating, taking action, as we continue our long march. As Martin Luther King Jr. said, “Let us realize the arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice.” I believe, at long last, we are finally seeing that arc come around. [...]

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