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DECISION DAY: Everything you need to know about the Prop 8 trial
August 3, 2010
Judge: “I’m asking you to tell me how [marriage equality] would harm opposite-sex marriages….”
Pro-Proposition 8 Attorney Cooper: “Your Honor, my answer is: I don’t know. I don’t know.”
October 14, 2009 pretrial hearing rejecting defendant-intervenors’ request for summary judgment (10/14 Transcript Page 23, Line 10)
By Eden James, Courage Campaign Institute
Back in June, before the Prop 8 trial closing arguments, the amazing team over at the American Foundation for Equal Rights — the group founded to bring this case to trial — posted a summary of the case up to that point.
As we count down the hours to the decision sometime between 1-3 p.m. PST on Wednesday, check out AFER’s summary and then click the link below to read much, much more on their web site:
As we approach closing arguments, and the subsequent decision, we wanted to provide you with a summary of the case by sharing this memorandum. No law is allowed to violate the U.S. Constitution, and our nation’s Founders established the courts to protect every American’s constitutional rights against unfair laws. Accordingly, we believe that we will ultimately prevail in this case.
At its core, this case is about equal justice under the law. Separate is never equal, and Prop. 8 violates Americans’ constitutional rights by creating separate classes of people with different laws for each one.
Prop. 8 denies fundamental constitutional liberties, which harms adults and their children without due process and for no good reason – no compelling government interest is advanced through Prop. 8. It is wrong to deny people fundamental constitutional liberties, like equal protection under the law, simply because of who they are.
This case is about Americans like plaintiffs Kris Perry and Sandy Stier, who deserve the governmental recognition of their love and commitment that other families have. Kris and Sandy have been together for more than ten years. Both are in public service – Kris leads an early childhood health and education agency, Sandy works for a county health department. They have raised four boys, with two teenagers still at home, so they stay busy with the usual things – PTA meetings, soccer, music lessons – just like so many other parents. Kris and Sandy simply want the same rights as every other family, as do Paul Katami and Jeff Zarrillo, the other plaintiffs in the case.
This case is a historic one, and it is on the right side of history. The Supreme Court’s ruling in Brown v Board of Education ended “separate but equal.” Loving v Virginia ended bans on interracial marriage. This case is an extension of these and other cases that have defended the principles of liberty and equality upon which this nation was founded.
Meanwhile, here’s another reminder for folks looking to join one of the dozens of rallies happening across America on Wednesday. The most up-to-date information can be found at:
Rex Wockner is also using this post to collect info rallies as they materialize.
If you have information on rallies not listed above, share the info in the comments.
Consider this an open thread to talk about whatever is on your mind…
UPDATE BY EDEN: The always edifying Chris Geidner just posted this one-stop-shop FAQ on the Prop 8 trial at Metro Weekly.
Here are some choice nuggets to chew on:
3. What is going to happen later today?
Today, regardless of the decision, not much — in terms of actual change — will likely happen. Because both sides have made clear — and Judge Walker has acknowledged — that they plan to appeal should they lose on Wednesday, it is likely that a temporary stay would be granted, which would halt the enforcement of the ruling until an appeal can be heard by the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals. AFER’s spokesman confirmed to Metro Weekly that the Proposition 8 proponents, who intervened in the case to oppose the plaintiffs, have filed a conditional motion to stay the trial court decision pending the outcome of the appeal.
8. The Defense of Marriage Act
Finally, any mention of the federal law, although not technically at issue in the case, is sure to raise eyebrows all across the country. Judge Walker asked about DOMA in written questions to the parties before the closing arguments, asking whether he could strike down Proposition 8 and not address DOMA. Although the parties did not ask for him to address DOMA, it obviously will be noteworthy should he decide to do so.
Much more here.
UPDATE BY EDEN: Courage’s Rick Jacobs is quoted by CNN in this story:
Rick Jacobs, founder of the Campaign Courage, which supports same-sex marriage, said he was hopeful about Wednesday’s decision because of what happened during the trial.
“I can only say that based on the evidence in the trial, it is absolutely clear that allowing gays and lesbians to marry will strengthen families and the nation,” he said. “No matter how the judge rules tomorrow, we’ve already won a significant victory because the other side admitted they have no argument.”
Rick is absolutely right, of course. Just read the transcript above of what Charles Cooper admitted before the trial even started.
Having technical problems? E-mail equalityontrial AT couragecampaign DOT org for assistance!
102 Comments Leave a Comment
1.
Lesbians Love Boies | August 3, 2010 at 3:24 pm
scribing happily
2.
Ben | August 3, 2010 at 3:24 pm
Ah. I now see how we know approximately when the order will be released. I must have missed that last update. Now then, since I don't really have much to say, subscribing.
3.
JonT | August 3, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Joining this fantastic post! My inbox hungers for mail.
4.
Richard A. Walter (s | August 3, 2010 at 3:29 pm
Thank you to Rob Reiner and Michelle Singer for putting up the money for this case, thank you to AFER for covering this case, thank you to Courage Campaign for covering this case and for the P8TT and NOMTT, thank you to everyone I have met here on this site who is now part of my extended family, and thank you to the two couples who were so courageous and took a stand to fight for the right thing–love and the legal recognition of that love.
5.
Ann S. | August 3, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Good God, man!!
6.
Eden James | August 3, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Thanks Richard!
I just added an update from the Metro Weekly's Chris Geidner to this post. Good stuff.
Check it out:
http://metroweekly.com/poliglot/2010/08/prop-8-de…
7.
James Tuttle | August 3, 2010 at 3:32 pm
Umm…my heart is RACING!!!
8.
Ronnie | August 3, 2010 at 3:34 pm
“Your Honor, my answer is: I don’t know. I don’t know.”
I still can't believe that that was the actual answer by their lawyer considering that the ideologies & organizations that lawyer is representing have publicly stated their illogical & irrational answers to that very question…..facepalms….
<3…Ronnie
9.
Andrea | August 3, 2010 at 3:34 pm
Midwestern Day of Decision RALLIES!
CHICAGO: 6 PM, Daley Plaza
CHAMPAGNE/URBANA IL: 7 PM, Alma Mater in Urbana, Illinois (corner of Green and Wright streets)
MADISON: 5 PM at the corner of Johnson and State
(by Noodles)
CLEVELAND: 5 PM at Bounce/Union Station
10.
Lesbians Love Boies | August 3, 2010 at 3:36 pm
It's not even tomorrow yet! ugh
And…still no news on any of the NOM sites (Nation for Marriage, NOM Blog, Marriage Tour) of tomorrow's decision. Do you think they are hoping if they don't acknowledge it, it will go away? LOL
Whooot!
11.
Ronnie | August 3, 2010 at 3:37 pm
I concur….<3…Ronnie
12.
Lesbians Love Boies | August 3, 2010 at 3:40 pm
I second concur! Thank you all. You have become a part of my family. That will never change.
13.
Ronnie | August 3, 2010 at 3:43 pm
Prop 8 Day of Decision Community Gathering: NYC
Please join Queer Rising, Marriage Equality New York and NYC's entire LGBTQ community for a United Community Rally on the day that the decision on the Prop 8 federal court case is announced!
***The decision is being released tomorrow!!!
On the day of the announcement, we will contact you again and ask you to do the following:
1. Gather at the New York City Supreme Court at 7pm.
*New York's entire LGBTQ community will be there!
*Speakers will include: NY politicians, couples affected by the Prop 8 decision, and grassroots organizers
2. Bring white flowers to leave on the steps of the courthouse
3. We will have tables set-up in Foley Park to provide everyone the opportunity to register to vote and meet/get involved with the candidates.
Please share this event with your friends. No matter what the judge's decision, this will be a momentous day for our community and it is important for us to be together in solidarity. Events like this will be happening all across the country.
We will soon see the day when marriage discrimination against the LGBT community is no more! The time to act is NOW. Rise up with us to demand our rights!
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=12698553067…
<3…Ronnie
14.
Michelle Evans | August 3, 2010 at 3:50 pm
If anyone of my friends here on the Prop 8 Trail Tracker site happen to be in the Orange County, California area on Wednesday evening, my wife Cherie and are will be speaking as part of the Day of Decision event in Santa Ana.
We are hoping for a great turnout from the Courage Campaign, Equality California, PFLAG, and lots more.
7pm at Sasscer Park, 502 W. Santa Ana Blvd, Santa Ana.
Would love to get to meet any of you in person Wednesday night.
15.
Lesbians Love Boies | August 3, 2010 at 3:52 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsBJkAF8gA4
16.
Andy Kelley | August 3, 2010 at 3:54 pm
If anyone else has Facebook event links for events tomorrow, let me know via reply, and I'll post them on the Equality On Trial fanpage to help connect folks nearby:
http://www.facebook.com/EqualityOnTrial
17.
James Tuttle | August 3, 2010 at 4:07 pm
Ya know..I don't like this whole idea of a stay until appeal. I want marriage now. Does anyone know how likely it is that a stay will or will not be granted or ruled for by Judge Walker?
18.
James Tuttle | August 3, 2010 at 4:09 pm
If I wasn't stuck in Fresno I would be there.
19.
Max C. | August 3, 2010 at 4:12 pm
I am so excited and anxious to hear the results! Even if (no, even though) the court case will undoubtedly get appealed, it would bring a truly wonderful message to California and to the United States if the court ruled in favor of same-sex marriage.
20.
Victoria | August 3, 2010 at 4:16 pm
Could not have happened on a busier day for me, but I'll be at the Chicago rally. Till then, I will toss and turn and try not to throw up.
Just so in need of moving one clear step closer to being allowed to marry the woman I love…please oh please let today be that day…
21.
Kathleen | August 3, 2010 at 4:17 pm
For anyone who wants to read them, Proponents' motions for stay pending appeal and request to have the decision on the stay issued at the same time as the decision, can be found here (Docs 605 and 606) http://www.scribd.com/ownbycatz
22.
Kathleen | August 3, 2010 at 4:20 pm
Oops that's Docs 705 and 706
I posted the direct links in the comments in the previous thread.
23.
Dpeck | August 3, 2010 at 4:23 pm
Hee hee. dont' forget that quotable gem: "Your honor, we don't need evidence" followed by the judge's question: "You don't need evidence??"
With dialog like that, I can't wait for the movie of the trial. We'll all be sitting in teh theaters shouting out wisecracks at the screen like it was the Rocky Horror Picture Show.
24.
Felyx | August 3, 2010 at 4:24 pm
Subscribing in spirit for Kirill, who is right now asleep… Sorry I wasn't the first… LOL :0}~
By the end of 2012, I predict…
I predict NOM will focus on the "evils" of gay adoption as their war(-mongering) chest goes empty!
I predict Bi-National Couples will become less bi and more plain ol' gay!
I predict that the tide will have turned against DADT DOMA while ENDA and UAFA come to fruition.
I predict that the US will settle into a happier healthier more loving country with gays-getting-married doing its part to rescue true family values, true spiritual harmony and, of course, the economy!
I predict the first Cheburashka ^^ to step on American soil!!!
Felyx AKA Chinchiyashka ^^
Love you! ;`)
25.
Ronnie | August 3, 2010 at 4:40 pm
Here's the official first video/single "Live Forever" from Openly Gay & Legally Married, former Mouseketeer, Matt Morris……It's a very feel good, make you want to get up & do something song…..enjoy <3…Ronnie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuND0Ws7YII&pl…
26.
Andrea | August 3, 2010 at 4:46 pm
Andy, Facebook links for the events I posted above
Chicago: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=10798627258…
Champagn-Urbana: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=14009465268…
Cleveland: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=14333241236…
Madison:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/event.php?eid=10190600…
27.
Andrea | August 3, 2010 at 4:48 pm
Victoria, see you tomorrow!
28.
Dpeck | August 3, 2010 at 4:55 pm
OK, it's now just a few minutes before midnight here in California and I have to try to get some sleep. I'll be thinking of all of you tomorrow while we're waiting and then while we're celebrating. Until then, sweet dreams!
29.
Felyx | August 3, 2010 at 4:57 pm
@Dpeck
OMG! I was thinking the very same thing!!! RHPS so rocks!
It will be like the movie of the 'Scopes monkey trial' but with action adventuresque shots of private angst, public protests, bloggers and commenters (Refresh! Refresh! Subscribe! Subscribe!!) and of course a comical subplot of the pitiful NOMFAIL BUSTOUR!
Oh! Robbie! Do us one more favor please… !!!
Felyx
30.
Felyx | August 3, 2010 at 5:01 pm
@LLB
It's just a piece of paper… it is not a genuine law!!!
Can't wait to see Louise put the whine in genu-whine!!!
Felyx
31.
Victoria | August 3, 2010 at 5:03 pm
Good song!
We've been dancing to this one too…:)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAOUxV3knbI&fe…
32.
Victoria | August 3, 2010 at 5:04 pm
Yay!!
33.
Alan E. | August 3, 2010 at 5:07 pm
Me too! I just finished making my signs. Gotta try to get to sleep soon!
34.
Felyx | August 3, 2010 at 5:08 pm
Having read the motion, I have to say that if it wasn't being presented by the proponents I would think it was a rational and well thought out motion.
That being said, it's still a load of crap!
Walker will issue a stay, no doubt. but in reality there is no real purpose for it. Deep inside I am hoping he denies or even just ignores the motion… 48% of Californians could go for some "irreparable harm" right about now!!!
Love,
Felyx
35.
Ķĭŗîļĺę& | August 3, 2010 at 5:12 pm
I love you, my Felyx de Chinchiyashka!
36.
Felyx | August 3, 2010 at 5:22 pm
Calling… pick up and we can Skype the night away!
37.
Straight Grandmother | August 3, 2010 at 6:10 pm
GO Queer Rising!!!!! Lift us up!
38.
Owen | August 3, 2010 at 6:12 pm
Matt Morris certainly didn't "live forever."
He had a couple good years with the Cardinals and he flamed out.
Yeah, I have to talk about baseball because I have to distract myself from worrying about the verdict.
39.
Straight Grandmother | August 3, 2010 at 6:19 pm
I am up, I am up I am wide awake in Provence France, wake up everybody, wake up so I have someone to talk to
My stomach is in knots.
40.
Franck | August 3, 2010 at 6:21 pm
I'm awake here – we're just one hour ahead of you
– Franck P. Rabeson
Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1139 days, as of today.
41.
James Tuttle | August 3, 2010 at 6:44 pm
I'm here to chat with…and I have to ask…what is it like living in a place so beautiful? Provence, France I mean.
42.
Felyx | August 3, 2010 at 6:44 pm
Raleigh to Russia – we are here for you! F et K
43.
Straight Grandmother | August 3, 2010 at 6:45 pm
Franck, I think you are in Madagascar aren't you? I hope your internet connection holds for you on this very important day. August 4th, 2010 is a day we will always remember, our Independece, or as I like to think of it our Freedom Day. I do also think of you especially today as you and your Fiancee are also a Special Needs couple. I hope soon, very soon, your fiancee will be able to secure a Fiancee Visa for you jsut as hetrosexual couples are able to get for thier fiancees.
44.
Franck | August 3, 2010 at 6:53 pm
Yes, I am in Madagascar, but sadly I can only have access to internet at work for now. Meaning that, at the time of the ruling (between 11pm and 1am here), I'll be offline. I'll have to wait until I get back to work tomorrow at 8am to get the news…
– Franck P. Rabeson
Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1139 days, as of today.
45.
Felyx | August 3, 2010 at 6:59 pm
I am not overly optimistic but I hope UAFA goes through this legislative session. Maybe this ruling will jar a few politicians into giving up this ridiculous nonsense! Even so, it will take at least a year for me and my Rusky.
F 4 K
46.
Straight Grandmother | August 3, 2010 at 7:07 pm
What does htis ruling mean for our family? This morning my husband was telling me about a case that went to the Supreme Court of France. A lesbian couple, one French and the other American were legally married in one of the American States that permit SSM. Together they had 2 children, both American children and both of the moms were the legal parents.
The moved to France and France said that you are not legally married here (there are civil unions here) and the American mom and the 2 children have to go back to USA. The women fought it in court and they won. The Supreme Court in France said that they were not going to discriminate, that there are international agreements that the United States accepts marriages performed in France and vice versa, and since the women were legally married in the United States and there was a legal adoption of the minor children in the United States France accepts that. Final ruling, the family unit is recognized and the children stay with their mothers in France.
For my family- my daughter in law conceived our twin grandchildren in the State of Virginia which has no protections for GLBT people. In fact the first thing their new govornor did his first week in office was to remove state level ENDA protections for state employees. No Civil Unions, no 2 GLBT people can adopt together, it has to be a single adoption only. My daughter in law used an anonomous sperm donor and thus by law she is the only legal parent to our grandchildren. My daughter desperatly wants to be the legal co parent also but the law is against it. Thus my grandchildren have only one parent and 2 legal grandparents.
When Same Sex marriage becomes legal nation wide, as this Federal Court Case has the potential to make happen the state of Virginia will not be able to discriminate against my daughter and our grandchildren. My daughter will be able to legally marry her wife and then legally will be able to legally become the co parent to my 2 year old twin grand children. Then I will be the legal grandmother to my grandchildren.
My daughter being a French as well as an American citizen (dual nationality) will be able to gain dual nationality for our grandchildren as well. Not only legal parenthood and grandparenthood is in play here but also citizenship and the rights and privilages of citizenship.
I will not go into detail here exactly on a daily basis how my grandchildren and daughter are harmed but the state not recognizing their family as a legal family. I'll jsut say that it kind of reminds of WWII when everyone had to carry papers around with them justifying their existance. This is what it is like for my daughter. The grandchildren have been rushed the ER 3 times by ambulance since they have been born. When your child is not breathing and you are hearing the sirens approaching, yeah having to rush around looking for your legal paper that says you have the right to make decisions for your (not legal) children, it's pretty heartbreakiing.
For our family we will gain a lot with SSM being the law of the land, we suffer a lot without SSM. My duaghter suffers and my gandchildren suffer without it. And if this decision goes against us, whihc I don't think it will I will be strongly encouraging my daughter and daughter in law to moves to a state that provides them and their children full Equality.
47.
Franck | August 3, 2010 at 7:11 pm
I'm afraid it'll take longer than that for C. and I even if the bill passes this year. If my company can't help us, then we'll have to wait until he's secured a job, and that won't happen until 2012…
Can you tell how many fingers, toes and other parts of my anatomy I could be crossing? Too many issues to think about!
– Franck P. Rabeson
Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1139 days, as of today.
48.
Greg in Oz | August 3, 2010 at 7:14 pm
Hey Guys – anyone still up? (I'm posting this in two threads – just to see who's around
)
It's 7.00pm here in Oz – too early in the morning for the USA guys – but I know there's a few international people here like myself that might still be around.
I've got a question for you all (inclusive of STr8 Grandma – I LOVE you & your posts!!) – what do you think this ruling (which HAS to go our way) will do for GLBTI rights in your country? Will it have an effect? Are you the issues in your country the same as those in the USA (Oz is in some ways ahead of the USA and in other ways behind).
I'm just curious, as this whole trial hasn't really made much of an impact here in Australia, due to aforementioned already achieved rights, but I knoww that in some countries, this ruling could be seen as a bit of a 'tipping point' in the whole GLBTI area.
I'd like to know what the international folk here think how the Prop 8 ruling will affect them. Just a thought that I've had for a while
Greg in Oz
49.
Franck | August 3, 2010 at 7:19 pm
SG – France has an almost as bad record on this issue as the United States. Why do you think I called out on them when Argentina passed SSM? Sarkozy's government is a joke and sadly he's still there for another two years at best.
Did you hear about that case two years ago when a French man was stripped of his French citizenship because he married a Dutch man? The European Court for Human Rights had to give France a slap on the wrist to resolve the issue… They still won't legalize SSM in France, but now they're forced to recognize at least the Dutch ones as valid.
– Franck P. Rabeson
Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1139 days, as of today.
50.
Franck | August 3, 2010 at 7:25 pm
The short version for me? Nothing will change here in Madagascar. The ruling won't even make the news anywhere. Homosexuality has never been a political issue here. I see no chance of Madagascar passing any LGBT-related law soon, in either direction. Homosexuality is only legal here because the government would find it silly to outlaw something that, in their words, doesn't exist/is purely a Western fabrication.
– Franck P. Rabeson
Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1139 days, as of today.
51.
Greg in Oz | August 3, 2010 at 7:27 pm
Doh! Posted that before I had a chance to read the above post from you Str8 GM. That's exactly the sort of thing I was wondering. I knew that this ruling was going to have a wider international effect and was just wondering.
Lets all keep our fingers and toes crossed for our US GLBTI brethren – and I use that term deliberately.
America has always sold itself to the world as 'the land of the free'….surely a positive ruling in this case can only enforce that perception(as even Bloody Blankenthorn stated in his testimony)
Greg in Oz
52.
Greg in Oz | August 3, 2010 at 7:34 pm
Sad to hear that Franck. But you never know the impact that this decision may have.
I've always said that I was lucky to be born where I was (no offense to anyone else intended), as Oz seems to take the best of the UK, Europe and the US and import it to our shores; mind you – we also get the worst sometimes too!! Got to take the good with the bad.
Right now, we have an election going on for our Federal Gov. Recently, our current PM came out against SSM, and it did cause a bit of a stink (esp. when an openly gay person in the government then backed the PM's line – some of us feel that Suzie Wong – the MP in question – has a lot to answer to). If this case comes down the way I think it will – then the issue could flair up again. The current Government IS supposed to be our most 'liberal' one!!!
I'll be hanging on the decision anyway, whether it affects any of us or not
Greg in Oz
53.
Dave in ME | August 3, 2010 at 9:10 pm
Argh-I was in bed when this posted! I missed 52 emails!!!
Dave
54.
Dave in ME | August 3, 2010 at 9:15 pm
It's really unfortunate that this wasn't televised. I can only imagine these ridiculous statements being copied and sent all over the net.
Dave
55.
Dave in ME | August 3, 2010 at 9:22 pm
I just went to their site and on the front page found "Alert! Breaking News Video: Protestors storming the podium. Threatening young children. Police standing by doing nothing."!!!!!
They are SO July 2010.
However, on the bottom left is a graphic that says "Proposition 8 Online Courtroom" that links to http://www.prop8case.com/ which has a little posting about the verdict coming in today. Apparently that's not breaking news, though.
Dave
56.
Steffi | August 3, 2010 at 9:25 pm
oh my god I'm getting so nervous.
I can't wait for the ruling. unfortunately fb is blocked during working hours where I live at the moment. but I'll stay tuned and wait for the ruling. fingers crossed and I can't wait to see a lot of wedding pictures of you guys once we all have marriage equality!
57.
Sagesse | August 3, 2010 at 9:35 pm
Waking up and signing on.
58.
Straight Grandmother | August 3, 2010 at 10:05 pm
Good morning Sagesee & Greg in OZ, Steffi & again Franck
My champagne is in the refridgerator. I have been keeping busy re-organizing the pantry. If I stayed on this board I would drive myself crazy as I have so much time to kill before the decision. I bet hardly anybody slept last night. For me I bet I won't sleep much tonight, well the champagn might help. I am waiting to call y son and my daughter int he states. They both have said that they will March against NOM on Sunday August 15th in DC. I gotta go on line and buy them some rainbow flags.
Wen I think of the United States and when I hear our national anthem sung right at the end when they sing, "The Land of the free adn the home of the brave" I often thing, "The land of the hetrosexual free and the home fo the brave"
Yesterday some one posted a link to a story and within that story was another link to the full text of Martin Luther King Jr's very long letter fromt he Birmingham jail. It's really very inspirational and it reminds me exactly of what we are doing protesting the NOM summer of hetrosexual only marriage tour in our counter protests. I cna't help but think, Dr King did not go off site, Dr King marched right down the city streets and Dr King hosted sit ins that blocked businesses. He non violently created a tension as he wrote. He created that tension in order to force negotiation and change against discrimination. While we are waiting for hte verdict I recomend anyone go and read the full text of that letter form the Birmingham jail.
I honestly cna't see how we can loose. If the verdict goes against us in the Federal District Court level, I see that as a rally point for massive protests, and I mean massive. If we win, we jsut keep winining all the way up to the Supreme Court of the United States. For once by God I wish The Human Right Campaign with that big long mailing list they have, I wish they would get off thier asses and lead in a protest if this goes against us, and if we win it I hope they lead a protest once it reaches the Supreme Court. No other GLBT organization has their breadth and width. They just will not ever put feet on the ground and lead ont he ground. They will only ever lead in quiet one on one meetings.
If this goes against us today I hope the hell there is a lot of LOUD and noisy protesting. August 4th, 2010 our Freedom Day, it sounds so nice doesn't it?
59.
Straight Grandmother | August 3, 2010 at 10:16 pm
Franck no I didn't hear about the Frenchman stripped of his French Nationality for marry a Dutchman. That is terrible. However they have Civil Unions here, which are exactly the same for OS and SS couples. Marriage is a civil right (now only for hetrosexuals) and when you marry here the only marriage that is recognized is the one performed at city hall. If you want your church to recognize your marriage then after your legal city hall ceremony you walk over to your church and marry again. The state only recognizes and authorizes civil marriage performed by a civil servant. They do have true seperation of church and state here.
I think once a big country like the United States recognizes true Marriage Equality for all that will be a world turning point. How many times have we seen our Canadian friends here on P8TT post and have been envious? I know I have. And closer to home for me here in France first Holland and now Spain, marriage Equality is for real. It will come, it has to come. I have to keep the faith that we will win Equality in our lifetimes in most countries.
I read about that Lesbian in Austriala toting the party line against Equality and going against her very own people. I think the word for that is turn coat. I hope she is shamed her whole life for her actions.
60.
Chris in Lathrop | August 3, 2010 at 10:19 pm
Why is it even standard that the decision (presupposing it swings our way) should be stayed pending appeal? I mean, in such a case, we win. Why don't we get to use our rights?
Also, should a decision in favor of striking down Prop H8 be stayed, could Kris Perry and Sandy Stier file a counter-motion to let the decision stand without the stay? There are already 18,000 marriages on the books, after all.
61.
Billy | August 3, 2010 at 10:37 pm
I'll be getting the phone text when the decision comes out…
Rawr… nervous, but hopeful. The suspense is killer.
62.
Franck | August 3, 2010 at 10:38 pm
I was familiar with France's system – I lived there for three years and have kept links with the country. The way I hear it though, the local PACS is far from being equal to marriage when it comes to rights, which leads to friction.
The story about the unfortunate man was that the Netherlands and France have an agreement: a citizen of France who becomes a Dutch citizen automatically loses their French citizenship, unless they became Dutch through marriage. That man became Dutch after marrying his partner of years, but since France refused to recognize a same-sex marriage as valid, they notified him that he'd just lost his French citizenship.
When the issue was made public and the ECHR came down hard on them, the government hastily modified the agreement so that SSM was also considered as valid, at least when it came to the agreement between the two countries. The man was then given back his French citizenship – almost a year later.
I don't see much things happening under the Sarkozy regime. They have pretty much affirmed their opposition to SSM and adoption, plus assisted procreation for same-sex couples. The Parti Socialiste better win the 2012 elections or else France will keep lagging behind its neighbors.
– Franck P. Rabeson
Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1139 days, as of today.
63.
Straight Grandmother | August 3, 2010 at 10:43 pm
Franck, can't someone call you with the news, by phone? I can't imagine havining to wait, knowing a verdict has been rendered, and for lack of communication not know what the decison is.
64.
Paulo | August 3, 2010 at 10:44 pm
Rochester NY is a long way away but we will be turning out tonight.
Contact the Gay Alliance 585-244-8640
Rally will be at the Liberty Poll in downtown Rochester at 5pm EST.
Our thoughts, prayers and voices are with you California.
65.
Straight Grandmother | August 3, 2010 at 10:47 pm
Merci Rochester!!!
66.
Straight Grandmother | August 3, 2010 at 10:52 pm
Good morning Kirill, I'm thinking of you today.
67.
Anonygrl | August 3, 2010 at 10:54 pm
OK… I only slept for about an hour… so I just called in sick to work. Now I can sit around here with you lot all day!
Now, we wait.
68.
Franck | August 3, 2010 at 10:56 pm
It's no problem here, really. I can wait for the news to come to me in time. I know I'd feel terribly frustrated if I heard about it at home: that's not the kind of information I can comfortably share with my family and relatives without making them squirm with my relentless 'activism.'
I'll wait until I get at work. That way, I'll be able to share the reactions, not only with the people here, but with my fiancé as well.
– Franck P. Rabeson
Days spent apart from my fiancé because of DOMA: 1139 days, as of today.
69.
Straight Grandmother | August 3, 2010 at 10:58 pm
Without any exageration it is paradise. With the internet and a Slingbox living on our olive farm is really truly like paradise. We made the front page of our local paper today for our olive oil.
70.
Steffi | August 3, 2010 at 11:02 pm
I'll get the news around 7-9pm local time here. that is still an aweful lot of hours to wait. But I feel like I could do with some good news! I'm gonna be outa myself when we win this thing. I'm tired of waiting but I'll wait as long as I have to if it is for a good thing. I want us to win and I hope I'll see you guys this evening (afternoon for many of you) to celebrate a big party connected over fb. or tune me in over skype? hmmmm that's actually not a bad Idea. if some of you is having a party of whatever kind I'd be thrilled if I could take part over skype!
(Skype name Krauthi85)
71.
Straight Grandmother | August 3, 2010 at 11:05 pm
Good idea about calling in as long as there are no serious reprocussions. That is one to the benefits of being self employed
72.
Straight Grandmother | August 3, 2010 at 11:09 pm
Steffi wherein the world are you?
73.
Jenny | August 3, 2010 at 11:16 pm
I don't think I can stand waiting all day. I'm on the East Coast so it will be more like 4-6 for me… Well, having followed the trial, I have no idea how the Judge couldn't rule in our favor, but I'm scared to be so optimistic. Fingers Crossed! No matter what happens today, Equality will win out in the end. Of that I'm confident!
74.
Leah | August 3, 2010 at 11:16 pm
I am going to get the news at around 9pm+ and I just can't wait for this incredible stupid prop to get destroyed today. I am going to be running around London jumping up and down in celebration.
75.
Gregory in Salt Lake | August 3, 2010 at 11:27 pm
Thanks Ronnie
Just what I needed to sooth anxious nerves! Here's another with Matt and Justin Timberlake.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm77ybhoIjw&fe…
76.
Shun | August 3, 2010 at 11:40 pm
feeling very nervous…sigh
I will be asleep when this news hits. Please tell me I will be waking up to good news.
77.
Steffi | August 3, 2010 at 11:46 pm
right now I'm in ivory coast africa.
78.
Straight Grandmother | August 3, 2010 at 11:47 pm
I about wore myself out already with anxiety I think I will take a little nap now so that I can get some stamina back for the big reveal.
79.
Andrew | August 3, 2010 at 11:50 pm
Well, if it helps at all, you could always spend some time (re)watching the Proposition 8 Trial Reenactment on Youtube. It will hopefully put your mind at easy to see Boies and Olson dominate the courtroom and Cooper falter in his Closing Arguments.
80.
Steffi | August 3, 2010 at 11:50 pm
I have a bottle of wine cool in the fridge. and I might get the gay waiter in the hotel along the road a drink next time we eat there
81.
Phillip R | August 3, 2010 at 11:56 pm
I told my partner last week that I had a feeling that the decision would come through this week. I actually said Thursday so not far off.
Going to be working when the decision comes down but I have internet access so I'll hear about it when it does. Going to be on the edge of my mind all day!
82.
Alan E. | August 3, 2010 at 11:57 pm
I woke up this morning, and the clock from 24 was ticking in my head. I am excited and nervous and anxious and joyful all at the same time, but I must keep it a little suppressed just so I can make it to 1–3 pm!!!
I want to reiterate that I want to meet any and all Trackers who will be in the Castro of San Francisco. I'll be holding a sign that says Lesbians Love Boies on one side and Gays Love Boies on the other. I will be wearing THIS SHIRT and a black jacket if it is too cold (yes, too cold in California in August). Come find me and say hi! If there are enough people gathered at one time, I would love to get a group picture. =)
83.
Gregory in Salt Lake | August 3, 2010 at 11:57 pm
Thanks to all for posts and comments and positive energy on this momentous day …especially Straight Grandmother
I'm enjoying your detail descriptions of feelings, activities and they way you are reaching out to others around the globe! Love and Light to you!
84.
Steve | August 3, 2010 at 11:59 pm
The actual quote is even better. It went like this:
"You don't need evidence."
"I don't need to have evidence?"
Then Walker referenced that again later when he said "I guess that goes to your original premise that I don't need to have evidence?"
85.
Steffi | August 4, 2010 at 12:03 am
HAHA people look strange at me when I'm shouting in disbelief at the sceen "were you just honestly saying that?!?" but it IS a lot of fun! only the internet is too slow here
86.
Steffi | August 4, 2010 at 12:04 am
and I would love to see it!
87.
Mykelb | August 4, 2010 at 12:10 am
What would happen if plaintiffs win and the Judge at the 9th Circuit refuses to issue a stay requested by defendants?
88.
rf | August 4, 2010 at 12:25 am
read through all the comments and didn't see this — last night olbermann ended saying he was going to cover the prop8 decision tonight–of course he would but preannouncing it might mean pretty extensive coverage. so set your tivos/dvrs now if you plan to be out in the streets tonight.
89.
Lesbians Love Boies | August 4, 2010 at 12:28 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDbzYMXXpCM
90.
Dwight | August 4, 2010 at 12:28 am
New here, just getting news.
I happen to be a straight married male, in my 50's.
In the long run, you ( we ) will win this. It is about freedom, equality and justice.
Don’t worry about the ruling today, either way there will be more battles ahead.
But you ( we ) are on the right side of history here, we are the Americans fighting for the rights of other Americans whether they are like ourselves or not.
91.
New | August 4, 2010 at 1:17 am
I found this very helpful:
[youtube
92.
Kathleen | August 4, 2010 at 2:29 am
Wow! This gets posted to my fb page!
93.
Mark M. (Seattle) | August 4, 2010 at 2:48 am
Welcome Dwight!!!
Thank you for your point of view and your support!!!
94.
Dwight | August 4, 2010 at 3:02 am
Most welcome Mark
I don’t want folks to think that they don’t have support from us straight folks either.
I don’t happen to be gay, none of my children happen to be gay ( although I could have easily accepted it if they had been ). That isn’t the point to me.
The point is… this is America, the land of the free. We don’t discriminate based on Race, Color, Creed, Sex, Religion, Orientation or National Origin.
And anyone that does, needs to take a hard look at their patriotism.
I am proud that all of my children are also opposed to this disgusting discrimination.
I just want you to know.. ..you aren’t alone.
95.
Alan E. | August 4, 2010 at 3:10 am
Damn my emotional roller coaster today! I just had a bunch of happy tears reading this.
96.
Gregory in Salt Lake | August 4, 2010 at 3:14 am
ditto!
97.
Straight Grandmother | August 4, 2010 at 3:31 am
LLB, this is the video I put in my Facebook. Many many Many Many thanks for finding this and posting this. It really really really touched me.
98.
Straight Grandmother | August 4, 2010 at 3:34 am
My God Dwight what state are you from/in?
So many many thanks.
99.
Richard A. Walter (s | August 4, 2010 at 3:42 am
And I predict that I will begin making celebratory challahs with rainbow wedding bells as part of the topping on them.
100.
Dwight | August 4, 2010 at 3:48 am
I am in California, which is one reason this is of interest to me.
It doesn’t matter to me that the decision won’t affect me or my children directly. It affects my fellow Americans, and that is important to me.
Our founders created this nation with the ideals of freedom, equality and justice. They knew as well then as we do today that it was going to take a long time to actually achieve that ideal… and it has.
Slavery, Women’s right to vote, etc etc etc.
This is another step in the chain toward the American Ideal.
I of course know people that are pro Prop 8, they all know better than to discuss it with me anymore because I will ask questions that they cannot answer without revealing that they are not in agreement with our American ideals.
That they hold to a set of laws governed by religion, above our nations laws that clearly state that it is wrong to do so.
That is the problem
What you folks have done, not only works toward freedom and equality and justice, but has also exposed many of these organizations for what they are…. hate groups. I think it is time we called things what they are.
Occasionally I hear from some gay folks ( not most, but some ) comments against straight people, I would ask that they not make the same mistake those opposed to them make. You judge people… one at a time.
And please know that you aren’t alone here, if only Gay people had opposed this… it wouldn’t have been as close as it was.
In fact if the vote happened today, I suspect it would not have passed.
101.
Richard A. Walter (s | August 4, 2010 at 4:35 am
Have an extra round of tea and crumpets for us!
102.
Richard A. Walter (s | August 4, 2010 at 4:45 am
Welcome to the P8Tt family, Dwight!
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