Leave a Comment Sagesse
EQCA and ACLU Lose Technicality Skirmish
April 15, 2010
by Brian Leubitz
Equality California and ACLU, as I discussed yesterday, were appealing Judge Walker’s order to turn over a slew of documents. Well, they lost. Sort of.
The 9th Circuit said it lacks jurisdiction to overturn a federal judge’s order forcing gay marriage advocacy groups to turn over their Proposition 8 campaign materials. … The organizations argued that their materials are protected by a First Amendment privilege shielding internal campaign communications.
But the three-judge panel said the organizations can’t appeal Walker’s order until they have been held in contempt for failing to comply with it. (Courthouse News Service)
I’ve noticed a couple other blogs discussing the decision, some even suggesting that this would speed up the process. That is a possible outcome, if the groups choose to turn over the documents. However, they can also wait to be held in contempt and then go back to the real meat of the question as I outlined yesterday.
Jurisdiction, which basically answers the question of whether the court has authority over the case, is a threshold question. That is, if there is no jurisdiction, then your substantive arguments are simply not heard. That’s what happened in this case, the 9th Circuit basically said you’ll have to wait on this. The next move is up to EQCA and ACLU.
Having technical problems? E-mail equalityontrial AT couragecampaign DOT org for assistance!
68 Comments Leave a Comment
1.
Kathleen | April 15, 2010 at 8:36 am
Brian, are you referring to the decision from a few days ago? (4/12/10) If that's the case, you may be interested to know that on the 13th, Walker issued an an order to show cause why the evidentiary record in the case should not be closed. Parties have until April 16 to respond.
There are links to the 9th Circuit decision and Walker's order here: http://prop8legalcommentary.blogspot.com/2010/04/…
2.
Kathleen | April 15, 2010 at 8:41 am
Also wanted to point to Nan Hunter's article on the recent events. Included is a discussion of D-I's petition for cert with the US Supreme Court, including an excerpt from the petition. It appears that they're asking for review of the original discovery order with which they were required to comply, not the order for ACLU/EQCA. http://hunterforjustice.typepad.com/hunter_of_jus…
3.
Richard A. Walter (s | April 15, 2010 at 8:47 am
I wil just be glad when everybody realizes that voting on the civil and human rights of others is wrong and makes doing so illegal in all fifty states. Perhaps California should go about either getting rid of or totally revamping the process that allowed Prop 8 to get on the ballot in the first place.
4.
Ronnie | April 15, 2010 at 9:10 am
I want to vote on the national religion because thats what the reich wants they just will not admit it…..<3….Ronnie
5.
Bob | April 15, 2010 at 9:45 am
I second that Ronnie, if there was a notional vote for which religion would rule, that would shut them up for good. well probably there would be a lot of blood shed
6.
fern | April 15, 2010 at 9:59 am
Dear Richard, I never could understand how prop8 got accepted, I mean that if the casc said it was unconstitutional how come that by vote they could make it constitutional. Then it took a while and Brown changed his jacket then Schwarzie changed his tune too they both became pro- f..g excuse the term but these guys all of sudden realized you people were a power.
As an outsider the only one I could respect as a politician is Newsom.
About California,? I was put in the drunk tank in Santa Monica once and after four hours they drove me to the motel where my girlfriend decided to stay, I never stopped calling them pigs and insulted them as much I could at all times they were extremely polite and I never knew why except that in those days an U.S. diplomatic was burgundy red with gold letters just like my Belgian passport, of course having spent three years as a bartender with NSA Green B's Mil Intel, being on the best softball team on post I had a knowledge of the English language maybe I digress here …
Out
Love ya'll
7.
K!r!lleXXI | April 15, 2010 at 10:11 am
Perry case has long been not just about marriage equality. The abundance of evidence presented by the plaintiff, the quality of that evidence, the questions that were raised and answered by experts — they all lead us to believe that Perry case is not so much about marriage, but it is about how gay people are treated in American society, and that that treatment is wrong, unconstitutional, harmful, hateful — that's why we're heading towards suspect classification nationwide… and this is what will consequently lead to our freedom (yeah, I think it's appropriate to say that kind of "F" word here).
However, unfortunately, as California SC showed us, even statewide recognition of gay people under suspect classification does not guarantee voters will not take our rights away from us. I only hope that federal government plays by the different set of rules in comparison to California. Ultimately, we're just gonna have to trust our brilliant legal team knows where we are going with all that.
–K
8.
fern | April 15, 2010 at 10:26 am
Ronnie I don't know what you mean about a national religion and if you're talking about the Roman Catholic Church I'd like you to know that, yeah, if the pope went to jail it would be funny, the second or right hand man to the pope said there is no pedophile, only homosexuals to blame, well I ain't too happy about that because if he goes to jail or whatever it will antagonize millions of RC idiots.
Have a nice day Ronnie.
9.
Ronnie | April 15, 2010 at 10:53 am
No I was thinking GaGaisum….hehhehe….<3….Ronnie
10.
Ronnie | April 15, 2010 at 11:03 am
http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/04/1…
Posted on Advocate.com April 15, 2010
Obama Signs Hospital Visitation Memorandum
By Advocate.com Editors
(me) With all do respect….I'm getting a little tired of these scraps they keep throwing us…..
President Barack Obama signed a memorandum Thursday requiring hospitals to allow gays and lesbians to have nonfamily visitors and allowing their partners medical power of attorney.
(me) memo?…..
The memorandum orders the Department of Health and Human Services to prohibit discrimination in hospital visitation. The memo was posted on the White House website Thursday afternoon.
(me) Civil Unions in NJ already do that but the Hospitals don't recognize it….but they'll listen to a memo?……
Reads the memorandum: “Often, a widow or widower with no children is denied the support and comfort of a good friend. Members of religious orders are sometimes unable to choose someone other than an immediate family member to visit them and make medical decisions on their behalf. Also uniquely affected are gay and lesbian Americans who are often barred from the bedsides of the partners with whom they may have spent decades of their lives — unable to be there for the person they love, and unable to act as a legal surrogate if their partner is incapacitated.”
(me) and why can't this type of thinking be attached to everything else we are fighting for?………
A White House official told The Washington Post the memorandum will affect any hospital that receives Medicare or Medicaid funding.
(me) It's a good step…however its not a law….it won't be enforced entirely….Full Equality NOWWW!!!!……<3….Ronnie
11.
PamC | April 15, 2010 at 12:15 pm
What good does it do them to ask for a review of the original discovery order now? Our side already has their documents.
12.
cc | April 15, 2010 at 12:18 pm
Uh…Yippee…?
And exactly how are they going to enforce this. Sorry but hospitals here in California simply don't believe you if you tell them you are a DP! My friend after rushing her partner to the hospital had to run back home while her partner was in the OR because she didn't have proof of her DP status. Hmm do they make a married couple do that? Didn't think so.
Sorry but I don't be fooled this nice comfy warm blanket they are throwing us is nothing more than a wash cloth. It won't work and hospitals still will deny us access to our loved ones because we lack any proof of our relationship.
Time to work on the real problem!
13.
cc | April 15, 2010 at 12:27 pm
Sorry that was supposed to go under Ronnie's post: "Obama Signs Hospital Visitation Memorandum"
14.
PamC | April 15, 2010 at 12:34 pm
Ronnie, I told a friend of mine the other day that the Theocrats have ruined the republican party (she's a fiscal conservative who supports gay marriage and abortion rights, and who would happily join a 3rd party if she could find one she supported). Because of Ted Olsen, I've had to revise my presuppositions about republicans as a group. Not all of them are haters, but I do fault the broad-minded ones for being so silent in the face of the louder bigoted voices out there.
And I agree with you, the far right, regardless of which religion, would love to make this nation a theocracy. And if they are allowed to vote on our civil rights, why can't we vote on which god they should worship??
Someone on a previous post (awhile back) referred to the book "Ain't Nobody's Business if I Do" by Peter McWilliams; it's about so-called "consensual crimes." He says that "Hating gays seems to be the only fashionable prejudice left. Maybe that's why it's dying so hard—some people just can't stand to be without at least one unjustifiable hatred."
http://www.mcwilliams.com/books/aint/309.htm
Sometimes I don't know what the religious right would do without us; who would they target next?
15.
Kathleen | April 15, 2010 at 12:42 pm
Simply knowing about it isn't the same as being able to use it. If they were to prevail on the argument that certain evidence should not have been discoverable, then it can't be admitted into the record, and in turn, Walker can't consider it when he decides the case.
16.
PamC | April 15, 2010 at 12:48 pm
Ah, so it's sort of like when the judge orders the jury to "disregard that last statement"; even if he heard the evidence in court, he can't review the docs if the discovery is denied? And he can't use any of that info when writing up his findings.
17.
PamC | April 15, 2010 at 12:53 pm
Yes, and a simple thing like a marriage license would instantly solve this and so many other issues.
This is the scenario that scares me the most, since it happens frequently throughout the U.S. We are married in Connecticut, and the hospitals here are great about documenting this and allowing visitation without a second thought or any hesitation (at least, that's been our experience). But my mom lives in Florida, and I hate going there for several reasons, not the least of which is that horror story of the mom and kids who were not allowed to be at the side of their dying spouse/mom in Miami.
18.
Kathleen | April 15, 2010 at 12:55 pm
Yes. Even if he's already reviewed the documents, he will have to disregard them when reaching his conclusions.
19.
David Kimble | April 15, 2010 at 12:59 pm
Yes, I agree, Ronnie – it is rather disgusting! They seem to believe we are like babies, just passify them wtih a passifier and everything will get better!
<3 David
20.
Ronnie | April 15, 2010 at 1:05 pm
anyone who is not their "Ideal"?……Mike Huckelberry's word not mine…….<3….Ronnie
21.
David Kimble | April 15, 2010 at 1:06 pm
"President Barack Obama signed a memorandum Thursday requiring hospitals to allow gays and lesbians to have nonfamily visitors and allowing their partners medical power of attorney. "
Hmm…excuse me, but I believe the law already recognized medical power of attorney, but it could differ from State to State – I am most familiar with Washington State…does anyone know anything else about this one?
<3 David
22.
Ronnie | April 15, 2010 at 1:06 pm
Until we spit the motha f%^$%#er out!!!!!……<3….Ronnie
23.
fern | April 15, 2010 at 1:08 pm
and it certainly won't stop idiots to spend an evening gay bashing. It is of course very important that the courts would recognize your rights. when I was ten that is fifty years ago I was told these people lived in trees and we "evolved" they are our equals now right? Check the name Genarlow in Georgia, this kid broke my heart, check out Gates of whatever university on the east coast. (he went for a beer with the pig at the white house) today do you think N-word are better off? I don't think so, even if the law is supposed to protect them and there ain't no difference gonna be made for you guys, each time a low life will come after you thinking he'll make an easy buck you'll get it, all he'll have to say is that you propositioned him was so shocked that he responded violently.
I believe that this is factual truth and it doesn't matter if you live in LA, Denver Paris or Brussels which is where I live. One thing I know is that things will change it'll take time but they will change and for the best of us all.
About Russia : What do you think of the St Petersbourg Ballet, I saw all the rehearsals and the play for free that was Swan lake, now I wanna go see Gisell as a redneck hetero I'll say ballet is a gay thing, that's what they all will say but they're wrong does the name Kotchoubey rings a bell?, he was gay and the end of the title over 900 years when I said go with a woman, take my wife, he said what's in a name beside carrying it.
24.
PamC | April 15, 2010 at 1:28 pm
Our attorney advised us to get an updated power of attorney every 5 years, because some places will say "that's outdated" and still deny you access. I've also read about some cases in which hosptitals denied visitation even after seeing the power of attorney docs, and the partner had to scramble to find a local attorney just to enforce the legal docs he/she had in hand. If a hospital wants to jerk you around, they will, depending on which person you encounter who has that little bit of power.
On the other hand, hetero couples can just say, "he's my husband" or "she's my wife" and no one ever asks them for marriage licences or powers of attorney. Hmmmm….
25.
David Kimble | April 15, 2010 at 1:32 pm
Thank you, yes, I had forgotten about Hospital policy differing, which is another reason for full equality. I am not sure if I should cry and scream – oh well, I'll do both – BOOHOO…SOB – MOST OF THE POPULATION JUST DOESN'T GET IT AND IF THEY DO, THEY JUST PLAIN DON'T CARE! <3 David
26.
David Kimble | April 15, 2010 at 1:34 pm
ROFLMAO – thanx, Ronnie I needed the laugh tonight – has not been a good day! <3 David
27.
Ronnie | April 15, 2010 at 1:45 pm
welcome…..xoxoxox….<3….Ronnie
28.
Ronnie | April 15, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Whether it is legal or not….when I have chosen the one….and he is in the hospital…They will either have to kill me, arrest me or get a restraining order to keep me away from him….
I don't get it….why don't we just force them?….It really is that easy….and then they are the ones who look like heartless soulless ugly nazis…..JMHGO…..<3….Ronnie
29.
PamC | April 15, 2010 at 1:56 pm
Ronnie, I feel the same way; I'm bustin' thru those doors! But knowing that they have the police on their side does scare me–I'm really no good in a fight, and I wouldn't want to risk losing precious "bedside time" by being hauled off to jail. Having the power of attorney docs does bring some peace of mind, but I'm still wary of travel in certain states, where the locals may be less likely to be fair-minded. Although I have run into "angels" where I least expected them before!
30.
Ronnie | April 15, 2010 at 2:01 pm
F THE PO PO!!!!!….<3…..Ronnie
31.
fern | April 15, 2010 at 2:02 pm
To Kyrill.
I have a picture of prince Yousoupov but I'll have to scan it.
Kotchoubey Nicholas is a person liked very much.
Very much.
privacy I cannot go further.
B4 going to sleep: 20 guys at the bar they leave to go outside smoke a cigarette then 2 cigarettes since they can't smoke in the bar and the next day they all die from pneumonia.
I want smoker's freedom.
32.
Carvel | April 15, 2010 at 2:03 pm
I think that the judge wants to move this along. His decision to issue an order to show cause on his the court's own motion why the evidentiary record in the case should not be closed is a good sign. Either side can object, but whoever objects is risking the wrath of the judge. Federal judges are funny. They like to keep things moving and to keep their dockets clear.
In a different vein I heard that our old friends, The Mormon Church is one of the biggest contributors of the Boy Scouts and contributes about 2/3's of their income. That is why officially the Boy Scouts have to believe in God and can not be gay.
33.
David Kimble | April 15, 2010 at 2:04 pm
@ Richard, the reality is this – in California the Constitution has been amended numerous times by ballot measures and many of the bad one like Prop8 end-up in court. There is little gravity given to the legality of a ballot issue, simply that it have the required number of signatures. I really wish the Attorney General could or would intervene in the ballot process, but that doesn't seem to be thinking point for California. <3 David
34.
PamC | April 15, 2010 at 2:12 pm
LOL, Ronnie
Denying hospital visitation by a gay partner is one of the most despicable, inhumane actions that one human being can do to another.
35.
PamC | April 15, 2010 at 2:14 pm
Huckleberry–ha! Nice one.
36.
PamC | April 15, 2010 at 2:17 pm
You did give me a good idea, though–instead of calling a lawyer, it might be more effective to call a local gay bar and tell them the situation and which hospital emergency room to show up at! With enough people backing me up, they just might relent and let me thru….
37.
PamC | April 15, 2010 at 2:20 pm
…and the local TV news!
38.
Ronnie | April 15, 2010 at 2:22 pm
Yes Yes…the old…."You have to go though me first….and me…and me….and me….and me…..and me four no ha8te"…..equality movement slogan placement…..lol…..<3…Ronnie
39.
Richard A. Walter (s | April 15, 2010 at 2:34 pm
PamC, where in Connecticut are you and your wife? Are you anywhere near Danbury?
40.
PamC | April 15, 2010 at 2:37 pm
We're about an hour away, on the shoreline near Old Saybrook.
41.
Ronnie | April 15, 2010 at 2:38 pm
Ok time for a song….from "The Big Gay Musical"….."As I AM"……
"I was put on this Earth as I am….I was born with my own special blessing …..I'll them shine…..and not give a damn….I was put on this Earth I am"……enjoy(tissues)……<3…..Ronnie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THKdEs_lwWg
42.
Richard A. Walter (s | April 15, 2010 at 2:40 pm
Yes, and the case recently could see the BSA and the LDS both forking over a lot of money because they have been protecting child moleters since 1925 and the proof is in their documents. The initial damages awarded were $1.4 milion, and in the punitive phase of the determination, they could be handed as much as $25 million more in damages.
43.
Ronnie | April 15, 2010 at 2:40 pm
geeze typo….ok try again….
“I was put on this Earth as I am….I was born with my own special blessings …I’ll let them shine…and not give a damn…I was put on this Earth as I am”…..<3…Ronnie
44.
Ronnie | April 15, 2010 at 2:43 pm
Woah!…talk about morally bankrupt…badada….hehehe….<3…Ronnie
45.
Richard A. Walter (s | April 15, 2010 at 2:44 pm
Keep watching my FB page and the P8TT group page. Once we have the date set for the wedding, we would be honored to have you and your wife join the rest of the P8TT group that is hoping to be there, and our other friends, at the wedding.
46.
Richard A. Walter (s | April 15, 2010 at 2:49 pm
Thanks, Ronnie. With everything that has been going on this week, I really needed that.
47.
PamC | April 15, 2010 at 2:49 pm
As my wife just said, "That's so sweet!" We would love to come–we'd be honored. Thank you so much! I'll be watching for the date.
48.
Richard A. Walter (s | April 15, 2010 at 2:50 pm
I will be sure to keep everybody posted.
49.
Ronnie | April 15, 2010 at 3:00 pm
You're welcome….I watched this on on demand last weekend….its a funny campy movie but hits what we go through right on the nose…..here's another funny line from the movie……
the "Breeder's Informational Book of Living Examples"….aka….the B.I.B.L.E.
bwaaaaaa….I mean I can't….I love acronyms….they're so fun yeah?…..<3….Ronnie
50.
Joel | April 15, 2010 at 3:17 pm
I think you misunderstand what the CaSC RULED. They didn't rule that prop 8 was constitutional, they ruled that it was 1. not a revision, but an amendment, and 2. That all the legal guidelines stated in the constitution for amending the constitution were followed, so the constitution was legally amended.
51.
Joel | April 15, 2010 at 3:20 pm
That's one of the main problems with CA's govt, IMO. If you can get enough signatures on a petition, then you can vote on any lame-ass idea that you can dream up!
52.
Ronnie | April 15, 2010 at 3:21 pm
to be unconstitutional…..<3…Ronnie
53.
Dan Hess | April 15, 2010 at 3:31 pm
I tell you, anyone tried to bar a friend of mine from visiting the love of their life, I WILL walk up to a random hospital worker and say "Excuse me. I want you to allow my friend in to visit the person they love. If this does not happen immediately, you will be occupying a hospital bed next to them. As will every other person I talk to until my friend gets a visitation." And in cases like this, I do not make idle threats.
54.
K!r!lleXXI | April 15, 2010 at 6:43 pm
This memorandum is a joke. This is exactly what hateros tell us all the time — that we are fighting for some special rights secured in some special documents, but we're not the ones doing that, and we're not asking for that… because we are already entitled to those rights that come in a package called marriage. Why make it so hard? Why invent a bicycle (Russian expression)?
Thank you, Mr. President, but we're not the children who should be happy for every little piece of legislation or even a memo that gives us some particular right we are entitled to already! We don't need crumbs from your table, we want to sit at the same table as equals! I cannot believe how people don't see that this is slavery all over again!
–K
55.
Kathleen | April 15, 2010 at 8:54 pm
California legislators duke it out over Scout exclusion/inclusion policies. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM…
56.
K!r!lleXXI | April 15, 2010 at 10:00 pm
I guess, you're referring to African Americans. I understand things are not so great for people of African descent, but they [things] are still way better than they were 50 years ago. Things have changed, and now it is despicable to make racial comments in the American society, but it is not despicable to make anti-gay comments. This little difference makes all the difference. And, I guess, it's worth it — fighting for making such comments unacceptable in society. Little things, little steps.
I live in Russia, same things are happening here, too. And even though murderers get imprisoned, they get the lowest possible punishment for such an uncalled for outburst — 6 years in prison for killing a gay person for no reason whatsoever, just because of gay panic attack. How's that fair?
I'm afraid I'm a computer-nerd kind of a gay guy, not the ballet-loving one. But, then again, I was never really exposed to that kind of performances with men in tight pants. Anyhoo, if I were a fan, I would most definitely raise some suspicions about my sexual orientation, which is not the case when you're simply a nerd and it is obvious this is why you ain't getting anything.
–K
57.
Sagesse | April 15, 2010 at 10:59 pm
In case you're looking for a silver lining….
This requirement, if it sticks, is national, and gets around having to navigate (or change) each state's laws separately. It must be almost universal, since any hospital that takes Medicare or Medicaid patients has to comply, and that would be virtually all the hospitals ordinary people use.
But the best part? This is going to give the Catholic hospitals a heart attack (pun intended). It isn't an adoption agency in Massachusetts or DC that they can close down, it's every Catholic hospital in the country. They can't squirm out of it, and if they rant and rave anyway, they'll look dreadful. And if they succumb on this, their argument for denying services in other cases where it's a condition of receiving public funds goes away?
58.
Ronnie | April 15, 2010 at 11:39 pm
I see it…..<3…Ronnie
59.
Ronnie | April 16, 2010 at 12:04 am
Good morning, afternoon, and evening trackers…..
So there's an update to burning of our Flag in NYC…
http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/04/1…
Posted on Advocate.com April 16, 2010
Rainbow Flag Burning Investigation Continues
By Julie Bolcer
(me) Basically they have it on video….the police will not let them release it yet because of the investigation….but this act of war is not sitting well with the community….They Hateros really do need to back…..they have no idea what they are getting themselves into…..
Center spokesman Jeffrey Klein said the flag “didn’t belong to the center and must have been carried there by the perpetrator. He said the flag was discovered around 8 a.m. Wednesday, taped to a poster announcing upcoming events at the center. Police responded immediately, Klein said,” according to DNAinfo.
In a joint statement Thursday, many of New York City’s out elected officials denounced the flag burning.
“The act of hate demonstrated outside the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Community Center in the Village is unacceptable,” said Council Speaker Christine C. Quinn. “I was angered and deeply disturbed when I heard someone would go to such great lengths to burn a rainbow flag and pin it to the outside of the building. The Center has long been a safe space for LGBT people and will continue to serve New Yorkers who need specific health and social resources. We will continue to combat hate through education to ensure spaces like the Center stay safe. We will continue to speak out against hate and to ensure spaces like the Center stay safe. We will continue to speak out against hate and to ensure spaces like the Center stay safe. Our community will continue to stand up against all acts of hate.”
(me) What did they really think they were accomplishing by committing and act of war? Scaring us? All they did was bring this to next level and making us stronger……<3…Ronnie
60.
K!r!lleXXI | April 16, 2010 at 12:35 am
Unfit immoral sinners?
Disqualified.
That's what the American Family Association and Focus on the Family — both right-wing religious organizations — think of gays and lesbians potentially serving on the Supreme Court following the retirement of venerable liberal Justice John Paul Stevens.
Their outrageous position is that gays and lesbians are "sinners" and since character is a consideration in approving judges, they should be automatically disqualified.
Sexual orientation should NOT be a factor in the appointment of a Supreme Court justice. Period.
With Focus on the Family, the American Family Association and the rest of the religious right firing up their massive lobbying machine, we need you to make your voice heard right now. Sign our letter to President Obama ASAP!
61.
PamC | April 16, 2010 at 12:48 am
Felons??!!? Which country is he talking about? It's not a crime to be gay in any state after Lawrence v. Texas, is it?
AFA is always spouting the most inflammatory hateful nonsense. I really am at a loss as to whether they get funding from a few wealthy right-wingers or from a broader cross-section of bigots.
I also wonder whether the "polarization" of America is based on numbers (are there as many haters out there as there are freedom-fighters?) or on how vocal certain folks are. If the far right is small but noisy, that bothers me less than if they are both widespread and wealthy.
It feels different nowadays than it did during the days of the Moral Majority (which is as has been said, neither). At that time, the theocrats dominated and seemed to represent all churchgoing peoples. Now we have more faith-based groups supporting gay marriage than ever before, and the tea-baggers are fighting amongst themselves. The right doesn't seem so unified or monolithic as it did then.
And it really does seem that they are fighting even harder and nastier because they are afraid that we are winning!
62.
Ronnie | April 16, 2010 at 1:11 am
PamC….they are using scare tactics and lies to get what they want….and just proves that even though they deny it they want anything, anyone, and all that LGBTQQIA to be illegal…..it's all in the wording…..these Hateros are so beyond stupid they make a grain of sand look smarter….<3…Ronnie
63.
Joel | April 16, 2010 at 1:44 am
Where were these salad bar Xtiams whe Clarence Thomas was appointed? Or is being gay more "immoral" than intentionally leaving pubic hairs on female subordinate's Cole can?
Hypocrits!
64.
Joel | April 16, 2010 at 1:47 am
That was filled with typos, sorry. This iPod and my arthritis are not very compatible!
65.
David Kimble | April 16, 2010 at 1:56 am
Just in case anyone doubts what the upshot will be for the Mormon Church…they will play the martyr (something they have years of practice at doing). Their religiion is based upon being the martyr – their first Prophet, Joseph Smith was martyred for their cause and they have continued with the mantra, since the Church was founded in the 1800's. What is interesting is their history tells a different story than do the conventional history books, but how else are they to play the martyr, than by rewriting their own version of history. <3 David
66.
Richard A. Walter (s | April 16, 2010 at 2:23 am
That's okay Joel. We understand. I have trouble sometimes with a full-sized keyboard, especially with arthritis in my right wrist, that has been acelerated by getting hit by a car two summers ago and having it broken.
67.
Ronnie | April 16, 2010 at 2:38 am
You see this is why I do not follow or believe in a specific religion…..none of them date back to the beginning of time and they are all man made to fit what their views of the world are…
In my senior year of high school (7 years ago) I took Sociology and one semester was dedicated to comparative religions…..my brain exploded…. with all the he said she said that he did this but I did that and god killed all except Noah his wife and sons and their significant others and two of every animal….(except clowns)…..with the what and the who and why and the where….but the huh?…..12.21.12…..The United States of America used to be called the new world and was first and foremost a pagan and secular society where the Native Americans where the 100% majority and are now in 2010 7% of the population…The Yellowstone Caldera will destroy the world….what?!!!!…..<3….Ronnie
68.
Kathleen | April 16, 2010 at 9:18 am
The D-Is in the case have responded to Walker's order to show cause why the evidentiary record should not be closed. As expected, they say they can't submit additional evidence because the No on 8 orgs have not complied with the discovery order, and ask that the Court hold ACLU/EQCA in contempt.
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